Transwoman in the changing room at school pool

[PoolFloat]

My mum goes to aqua aerobics classes at a sports club in a private school. Recently, a transwoman has joined the class. My mum was told that they use a different changing room to the one next to the pool but today they came out of the pool and put their swimming hat into a locker before returning to the pool to join the class (there is adult free swim beforehand).

The club has a safeguarding policy which states they will: prioritise the safety and well-being of children and adults at risk

I'm not sure if my mum is considered at risk? She is 88 and nearly all the women in the class are in their 70s and 80s.

The changing room has a communal area with only four cubicles so most women get changed in the communal area. Now they are reluctant to do so.

My mum has asked me to help her draft a letter from the women in the class saying how uncomfortable they are that this person is in their changing room but doesn't know how to word it.

Can anyone help please?

Christ, did the first reply seriously compare lesbians to men? Are you aware that your views are homophobic?

And no. Women don't ever have to take the time to question and get to know somebody who makes them feel uncomfortable. Stop telling women to lower their boundaries and risk their safety. This isn't some kind of theoretical exercise. If I encountered a person out and about who made me feel unsafe or uncomfortable, I sure as hell wouldn't be quashing my natural reaction in case I come across as rude or judgmental. I'd protect myself in whatever way seemed best at the time. Back in the real world, men pose a threat to women and I'm not going to hang around and figure out whether my instincts are correct or not. The risk of harm is too high.

@Dreamwhisper if it was transphobia, presumably the women would be equally unhappy about a trans man in the female changing room?

But they probably wouldn't. Because the trans man would be biologically female and therefore most likely a non-risk to other females.

I agree though that where only single sex changing facilities are available, it puts trans people in a very difficult position. Private, unisex changing facilities would sort this. Individual floor to ceiling lockable cubicles, individual lockable shower cubicles, etc. It's really not that hard. Any transwoman insisting upon using a female-only single sex space when there are private unisex facilities available is really not putting the safety and comfort of other women first. Which kind of suggest they are not as 'womanly' as they like to think.

Thanks @SolasAnla - that's really helpful.

@Dreamwhisper - my mum - and all women and girls - have the right to get changed in a single sex space. They have the right to privacy.

Maybe they should attempt to say hello to this person and see them as a person who just wants a quiet swim.

No male using female changing facilities JUST wants a quiet swim. Using female spaces is validating for them. Why should women tolerate being treated as props by men?

Unless this man entered the sports club wearing nothing but a swimsuit and swimming cap then they changed in the women's changing rooms unless we think they randomly put their swimming cap in an empty locker in the women's changing room whilst all of their other possessions were in a different locker and changing room.

Women are vulnerable to males in mixed sex facilities. That's why single sex spaces are generally offered. It's also for our privacy, dignity and peace of mind, as well as a respite from being stared at and sexually harassed.

Presumably these women who share beds with male friends do so BY CHOICE and don't have this forced upon them? Presumably they know and trust the male friends? Allowing biological males into a WOMEN'S SPACE is not okay, period. I don't care who they're attracted to. They aren't biological women. Women have enough to navigate through life without having to have their safe spaces taken away from them too.

As I said, my mum was told they had been offered some different changing rooms to use which are empty at that time.

They have chosen to use this changing room which is full of semi naked elderly women

Single sex spaces= no one except small children of the opposite sex allowed.

It's well known that transphobic women are often heavily bias against transwomen because they see being trans as nothing more than a sexual fetish, they never seem to care too much about trans men. They would likely make a less aggressive but still trans phobic comment like how they're just confused lesbians or something.

It is not ok. It is never ok for men to take away the right of women to have privacy in single space settings.

Women have the right to undress without a penis being present. It is that simple.

Then 'she' is really not a woman, is she. Because she's deliberately choosing to make women uncomfortable with her presence, despite having another option that doesn't involve changing with men.

Women don't pull this shit. Men do, regardless of how they identify.

And this is whats putting me off starting to swim again, which I so need to do for my mental health, fuck going in a changing room right now & fuck all you who are bullying & gas lighting traumatised women to accept men in their desperately needed safe spaces.

The boundaries of women were transgressed against their consent. Those women were violated.

It is a single sex space; it is a changing room designated for members of the female sex. Those females consented, by entering the space, to share it with other members of the female sex. The door is the boundary. Any male who crosses the threshold of that door and enters that female space is transgressing the boundaries of those females against their consent. Those females have never consented to that space being a mixed sex space.

But yes I agree in this day and age single person occupancy provision like cubicles is the best way anyway. Then the usual family rooms and a larger communal area for people who don't care.

Basically what I've seen at almost any pool or gym I've come across to be fair

they never seem to care too much about trans men

Because they are female. Not male.

Exactly? I wasn't referring specifically about the example in the OP. I meant at all/in general.

where it is for a legitimate purpose. This is a high bar. Feeling a little discomfort with someone as they are different is unlikey to qualify under the EA2010.

End of. Until the new PM changes the EA2010 to remove trans people. Then you can all have open season on the trans as many wish it seems. How sad.

And, being female, they are at elevated risk by going into the men's changing room. So they are very welcome in the female one, as far as I'm concerned.

Don't be silly. A lesbian is a woman. Men are responsible for 95% of sexual assaults.

As for how do you know they're trans? Er, because she has eyes? Most trans women don't pass.

And women have the right to a separate changing room based on sex.

I really can't believe women defending this really want to have penises on show in their changing rooms? Which is what is happening here. You might as well get rid of all single SEX spaces if anyone with genitalia of the opposite sex can walk in, and no one minds.

I would be livid if expected to share a space where I'm in any state of undress with a strange penis that I haven't agreed to.

Exactly? I wasn't referring specifically about the example in the OP. I meant at all/in general

Well yes, it's therefore logical that as women we are more concerned about sharing spaces with males than females

Oh my God, let's not be mean spirited by wanting to preserve our safety, privacy, dignity and comfort, eh? I mean who the hell do women think they are wanting these merest of considerations when going about their daily lives? Hell, burn the witches.

Isn't it strange that women are meant to "be kind," and put up with men coming into women's spaces?

Why do you think a TW in their 40s wants to join an aqua aerobics class made up of women in their 70s and 80s? 🤔