Is trans movement now, comparable to LGB movement back in the day?

[JasmineVioletRose]

Arrrrgh! DH has just said to me that perhaps the trans movement is comparable to the LGB movement of the 70’s and 80’s. And that because of this he feels uncomfortable with my terfy views. I’m trying really hard not to rant. Can anyone share any helpful links I can send him to address his misconceptions?

I agree with him. Having been an LGB teenager in the 90s, a lot of the current narratives about trans people strongly remind me of what was being said about LGB people back then. The vast majority of LGB people I know feel the same.

He just still feels like sometimes the GC fem movement is a bit mean to a marginalised group.

Being mean by pointing out that young gender-distressed people are receiving sub-standard medical care? Being mean by asking that these young people be properly assessed for comorbidities before irreversible treatment is started? Being mean by pointing out that the treatments are irreversible and are known to cause lifelong damage, so should be a last resort and not a first resort? Being mean by asking for the same standard of evidence-based care that is used across the NHS to be applied to this 'marginalised group'?

Which narratives? Could you be more specific?

When did the LGB movement advocate for kids to be pumped full of powerful life changing drugs, and for young women to get double mastectomies before they have reached their twenties?

When did the LGB movement demand that women have to allow males into single sex spaces, prisons, refuges, women's sports?

When did the LGB movement demand that everyone redefine words such as 'woman' to include males, or call women 'bodies with vaginas'?

I'll wait........

aseriesofstillimages · Today 22:47
I agree with him. Having been an LGB teenager in the 90s, a lot of the current narratives about trans people strongly remind me of what was being said about LGB people back then. The vast majority of LGB people I know feel the same.

A difference is that LGB people live their lives without encroaching on and threatening women, or trying to change language, or young peoples bodies, or suggesting that someone is in the wrong body, or that someone should be attracted to them on the basis of their gender rather than their sex.

The LGB Alliance wants to separate themselves from T for a reason.

I don't recall gay rights ever impinging on the rights of other people

This is the biggest difference by far.

Thanks scrolling
I have explained to him about the existence of the alliance and why it's necessary. I feel like he just switches off at some point.

The LGB movement never claimed that they were "trans straight" and that heterosexual people are "cis straight"

Inferences/assertions about shadowy powerful lobby groups trying to undermine traditional, common sense values and beliefs, and trying to ‘convert’ innocent young people. Disproportionate focus on negative cases involving trans people, leading to wider aspersions about the motivations or mental health of trans people more generally.

Ooo this is a very good point. I'll use this thanks. He hates religion!

There was a time when many people would have argued that having a gay person teach their children, or appear on TV, or having to see a same sex couple showing affection in public, impinged on their rights.

I would possibly consider tackling the issue from the direction of 'good fences make good neighbours' and the importance of getting informed consent before someone else involves you in their fetish.

e.g. it is perfectly possible for men and women to each rent a room in a shared flat or house and treat each other with kindness and respect. But some women (and indeed some men) prefer same sex house mates in such a situation. But if a trans woman is going into a woman's room and taking her clothes, ejaculating into her best work blouse and then hiding it under her bed the woman will naturally feel revolted and that she no longer wishes to live with the trans woman in question. We need to be able to talk about new etiquette and boundaries and to call out unacceptable behaviour without men constantly assuming that we're saying all trans people are like that or all men are like that.

Not letting women talk honestly about their experiences is the opposite of kind

Are you seriously comparing women objecting to males being in female only prisons, refuges, hospital wards or sports, to people who didn't like seeing gay people on telly?

Come on.....

If it comes to it, I am willing to be a bit mean about a male running a Rape Crisis and suggesting women survivors of rape should be educated out of their 'bigotry'.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rape-crisis-chief-mridul-wadhwa-steps-back-from-bigot-comments-2b9kdvc75

And me.

I agree with your husband tbh

I'm tired of hearing the mean comments or the kindness message. Women need protections in law because men are regularly 'not kind' to us. I think back to the way I was treated from the age of twelve and then wonder why the hell any sane person would think that someone who has repeatedly experienced that behaviour at the hands of men would 'be kind' about anything. The sane reaction would be to avoid men as much as possible. And I'm not a rare case - many women experience harassment, assaults and abuse from men.

Women as a sex class are at risk from men as a sex class. We are the vulnerable group. Comparing this for the fight for gay rights is madness. Gay people were/are a marginalised group. Men aren't. The gay rights movement took nothing from straight people. The trans rights movement is extremely harmful to women.

Expecting us to be nice about is exceptionally naive and actually pretty sexist.

Maybe you are a bit mean? Have you considered that maybe he is right and you are wrong?

Yeah. I'm a bit mean. Come at me.

Cab you expand on that at all?

Gaslightastic!

This is FWR on Mumsnet, we have proper grown up debates and generally don't give a fuck about being called 'mean', especially from people that can't back up their assertions.

It doesn’t sound like he disagrees with ‘terfy opinions’ he just feels you are ‘a bit mean’… how is anyone outside of a trained professional counsellor supposed to help him with that?

Try this

• you are in a cafe, your 9 year old goes to use the ladies loo on their own - fine? (I'd say yes usually)

• immediately before (or just after) she goes, a man walks in - fine?

• immediately before (or just after) she goes a man who has lipstick on walks in - fine?

• same for a man with lipstick and a badly fitting wig

• same for a person who is clearly male, but has made more effort, probably short of full transition - fine?

Where does your husband draw the line for your DD?

If your husband draws the line for DD, why can't you draw a line for you?

Oh I'm very mean now women in City of Edinburgh, Midlothian AND East Lothian have no access to women only Rape Crisis Care. I'm pretty pissed off about Brighton as well. And thats just the places we know about.

MEAN AND PROUD