Is trans movement now, comparable to LGB movement back in the day?

[JasmineVioletRose]

Arrrrgh! DH has just said to me that perhaps the trans movement is comparable to the LGB movement of the 70’s and 80’s. And that because of this he feels uncomfortable with my terfy views. I’m trying really hard not to rant. Can anyone share any helpful links I can send him to address his misconceptions?

@Labadabbado "i grew up in the southern us in the 80s where homophobia was rampant." Thanks for sharing this it is actually super relevant. So without wanting to be patronising whether a change is progressive or regressive depends on where you are looking from.

Gender Identity is (from where I'm stood) both sexist and homophobic, but it is potentially, less sexist and homophobic that the southern states of the US.

Gender Identity is a theory that emerged from (gay) conversion therapy. The idea being that being homosexual was 'getting it wrong' and by fixing (strengthening) someone's gender identity you could turn someone back from a homosexual man into a heterosexual man.

Modern conversion therapy says that what you have isn't a boy with a 'faulty spirit' which needs breaking but a boy with a 'girl spirit' who needs treating as if he were a girl (which would feel kind and progressive by comparison) with body and hormones being medicalised where resources are available to make for the happiest healthiest adult possible.

GC (old school) progressive is different, we aren't coming from the same place.
sex - big categories inclusive important in some situations
Sexual orientation - kinsey scale (0-6) from super gay (completely homosexual) to super straight (completely heterosexual) but consenting adults treating each other with care and respect are free to 'the pursuit of happiness'.

Dress and make up are optional hobbies regardless of sex. Have fun with them if you like ignore them completely if you like it won't make you one bit more of less of a woman.

So for example new progressive tells my daughter she doesn't need to do high heels or make up because she's nb - old progressive tells my daughter that she doesn't need to do high heels or make up because it's sexist bollocks.

@howdoesatoastermaketoast · Today 16:00
I sent you a private message to ask you more about your post here.

Well, that was revealing.

As always. It's nice that the same tired old homophobic straw men keep getting trotted out when female people say no to male people. Lesbians are female. Males are not.

Women as a sex class are at risk from men as a sex class. We are the vulnerable group. Comparing this for the fight for gay rights is madness. Gay people were/are a marginalised group. Men aren't. The gay rights movement took nothing from straight people. The trans rights movement is extremely harmful to women.

Expecting us to be nice about is exceptionally naive and actually pretty sexist.

This.

There is a comparison with straight women objecting to lesbians sharing changing rooms with them.

No, there is not.

Well, Eresh, to be fair I am still waiting for why being a trans woman is frequently ten times harder than being female.

It always seems to surprise me that when people post statistics regarding the violence and abuse experienced by other groups as a comparison to those of females, that they don't then consider how few females actually report their rapes, assaults and abuse.... or even the regular instances of discrimination that we experience.

But... apparently females indulge in 'fearmongering' and manufacture 'hypothetical risk' when we discuss the constant that is rate that males commit sex crime regardless of gender identity or sexuality. And are worthy of denigration and derision if we mentioned it.

I don't know why it surprises me, though, but it does.

Well, Eresh, to be fair I am still waiting for why being a trans woman is frequently ten times harder than being female.

Did someone post that on this thread? Oh my days...

Perhaps because nobody actually believes that they are, so they're constantly fighting against reality. Women have it easier - we don't have to fight against reality.

There is a comparison with straight women objecting to lesbians sharing changing rooms with them.

If there are straight women who object to sharing changing rooms with lesbians, I've never come across them.

I have never experienced sexual harrassment, sexual assault or verbal threats from lesbians. From men on the other hand... There was a long thread a while ago about times that posters had felt threatened, vulnerable or uncomfortable. Every single one of these involved men, there wasn't a single post about unwanted behaviour from lesbians.

Even if there were women who objected to sharing changing rooms with lesbians, that isn't a reasonable objection as lesbians are women and equally entitled to use the female changing rooms as any other woman. Unlike males.

I've never even noticed that I'm sharing a changing room or loo with a lesbian. Why? Because they're bloody female, that's why!

"Is trans movement now, comparable to LGB movement back in the day?"

Only if back in the day LGB had all politicians including the leaders, all comedians and social commentators , all major organisations including the police, Local authorities and private companies including anybody employed by them by the balls and terrified of upsetting them.

I dont remember it being like that. I certainly don't remember people being taken away from their homes in handcuffs for telling an off colour homophobic joke.

”It always seems to surprise me that when people post statistics regarding the violence and abuse experienced by other groups as a comparison to those of females, that they don't then consider how few females actually report their rapes, assaults and abuse.... or even the regular instances of discrimination that we experience.”

I think the other point to be made here is the question of who should be used as comparator. Given that men are more likely to be violent to other men, than to be violent to women, demonstrating that some men are attacked more than women shows nothing of significance. Nobody is arguing that other at-risk males should be moved into women’s spaces.

In addition, it’s an unfortunate truth that many people who claim to be trans also have high levels of comorbidity with other mental health problems. Comparing the wages of a group of people with high levels of mental health issues with the wages of the general population don’t necessarily indicate that there is prejudice against that group. I am sure that prejudice exists, but statistics are rarely straightforward and need to be examined in light of a great many potential confounders.

This!! Well said,@Childrenofthestones

Has there been anything like this, before, ever? A bonkers movement that has captured the police, the judiciary, parliament? The only comparison is that of the major religions, but they took 100s of years to get there. That this has happened in 10 or 15 years is truly shocking.

Ask your DH about this, OP. Ask the questions, and get him thinking.

In addition, it’s an unfortunate truth that many people who claim to be trans also have high levels of comorbidity with other mental health problems. Comparing the wages of a group of people with high levels of mental health issues with the wages of the general population don’t necessarily indicate that there is prejudice against that group. I am sure that prejudice exists, but statistics are rarely straightforward and need to be examined in light of a great many potential confounders.

This. There are so many elephants that I'm surprised the room has space for anything else.

Not really comparable, the LGB campaign was about tolerance and being allowed to live their best life.
No other rights or privileges were undernined. The TRAs literally want the concept of 'womanhood' to be whatever they want it to be
When Eddie Izzard says he is currently in 'girl mode' he gives the game away. A biological sex should not be approriated for a man to get sexual gratification.

OP, if your DH is mainly concerned about kindness, there's plenty he and the other lads can do to fill that gap. Here's a view that might be of interest:

mobile.twitter.com/glosswitch/status/1537753830540050433

I was hoping that @JasmineVioletRose had come back with some kind of update. 😳

The LGB movement of the 70s was about freedom. Freedom to wear what you want, love whom you want, say what you want. Freedom from sexist stereotypes. It was genuinely refreshing and liberating.

The trans activist movement is about repression. Telling girls who don’t conform to sexist stereotypes that they should sterilise themselves, telling boys who aren’t macho that they aren’t really boys and should consider castration. Telling teenage girls they must change for PE in front of teenage boys. Telling women that they have no right to privacy in showers and toilets. Telling female athletes that they have no right to single-sex sports. Telling librarians that they must host drag acts for toddlers, or be subjected to a hate campaign. Demanding that anyone who objects to any of this be arrested.

It has more in common with early nazism than it does with the LGB movement of the 70s.

It was joyful. It was about freedom and self expression. It was about people NOT getting fired or bullied out jobs or not getting flats rented to them.

Nowadays it’s about bullying and gaslighting women. It’s such a misogynistic backwards movement.

‘Be exactly what you are’ is the opposite of ‘Be everything that you are not’

We change nothing about ourselves if we are LGB. Transing a kid is changing everything in an attempt (most often) to imitate a heterosexual of the opposite sex.