Is trans movement now, comparable to LGB movement back in the day?

[JasmineVioletRose]

Arrrrgh! DH has just said to me that perhaps the trans movement is comparable to the LGB movement of the 70’s and 80’s. And that because of this he feels uncomfortable with my terfy views. I’m trying really hard not to rant. Can anyone share any helpful links I can send him to address his misconceptions?

Sorry that should have been for @Labadabbado

data is not published in the uk at that granularity but in 2020 ONS did share that trans (not further specified) are 2x times as likely to be victims of crime than cisgender

Please detail what type of crime. Because if these are the same numbers that get posted here often, they include crimes such as misgendering and such.

So please do post links to back up your claims.

@Helleofabore there is no data that cis women face greater risk when sharing spaces with trans women. Therefore the fears are hypothetical.

as for being ‘male centered’, it is possible as a woman to come to a very different opinion. Personally I feel the whole GC movement has misappropriated feminism, distracting us from more important/ widespread issues like pay inequality, lack of representation, real actual violence (not the hypothetical kind), etc.

Unfortunately, if male and female have no objective meaning, there isn't much you can say empirically about the pay gap.

Please do not use the term cis.

You have failed to provide any statistics or studies that show that transitioned males have a lower risk than the male population. Females don’t share single sex spaces with males because these spaces are separated for a reason.

Shall we post anecdotal evidence of transitioned males in female single sex spaces masturbating, or posing with swords, or with erections. To use your words, these are quite easy to find using Google or on porn sites.

Having come from an IndustrIal relations background, I am very familiar with the history of female discrimination, lack of representation and pay inequality. I am also concerned how the inclusion of transitioned males can effect these issues. Particularly when you start investigating these issues at specific levels where males dominate and transitioned male inclusion into these statistics can make a difference.

Your continued denial of the risk that is presented by all males, regardless of gender identity as ‘hypothetical’ is ignoring the reality.

the UK prison statistics do not lie. I am not sure why you have chosen to continue to ignore them. You cannot provide any other statistics to counter them, but have doubled down to deny that transitioned males have the same risk or greater at committing sex crimes than the rest of the male population.

@MangyInseam there is also a staggering wage gap for trans vs cisgender =)

for those that want to look everything up, this is from a McKinsey study in 2020/2021

@Helleofabore the prison stats are small and quite frankly don’t say much about the population at large. There is no evidence of actual harm, nor is there clear evidence of no harm. Showing demonstrable harm should be easy if it is so widespread. Proving no harm is almost impossible- possibly the reason you have chosen that as your threshold.

god it’s deeply deeply tedious having to go over the same ground a gazillion times for the absolutely determined to Centre men above all else

trans women are men and there is absolutely no evidence that they offend at a lesser rate than men who don’t wear dresses and lipstick

we are beyond fucked off at being asked to beeee kiiiind by ppl on the side of TRA who threaten women with murder, violence & rape

if TW are afraid of men that’s not womens problem to solve. We are not bloody support humans to the mighty penis

fucksake

There is demonstrable harm though. There are males posting footage of themselves in threatening poses in female facilities, of them masturbating in female toilets on porn sites as just the start.

There has been reported incidents of abuse and assault by transitioned males in female prisons.

There has been transitioned males indecently exposing themselves in female single sex spaces, and assaulting children.

There are female rape victims telling the world that they are feeling unsafe to use previously female single sex spaces, and are actually going without the care they need because of the presence of transitioned males.

How many females of any age are you willing to write off as collateral damage because the statistics of ‘demonstrable harm’ are not being separated out and reported?

The prison stats are representative of the UK transitioned male prison population.

It is an actual snapshot of that population. Not a sample.

Why do you feel the continued need to handwave them away and then try to redirect people’s attention to what victims this group is?

We have seen this distraction technique time and time again. We will simply keep coming back to the fact that there is absolutely no evidence that transitioned males are any less of a risk to any female than any other male.

Therefore, there is absolutely no evidence that this group of males should be treated as a special low risk group, despite your continued assertions to the contrary.

If this subgroup of males should have free access into female single sex spaces, so should every single other male on the planet.

Was he there? Did he see it first hand?

As similar as a banana to a teapot.

I can’t Google it. I’m on my phone. Please give an actual citation. With a link. Or it’s bullshit like every other TRA statistic.

I’d like to see the ONS data linked to see if it is the oft linked stats that we constantly see posted.

I will be very happy to be proved wrong

Here’s the NCVS summary report from the US in 2019. One mention of “trans” and it’s transportation.
bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv19.pdf

It’s clearly bullshit. If it wasn’t they would give a real citation.

Meanwhile, it remains the case that no evidence suggests transwomen are less dangerous to women than other men, and most of the available evidence suggests they are more dangerous. Maybe some clapping emojis would help it penetrate?

It's also important to break down stats - if you are talking about a population that has a high incidents of being involved in sex work, which is true in the trans population, they are far more likely to be assaulted.

Even better dark day, we have been told an analysis of the UK transitioned male prison population (with an almost full coverage of that population) is too small to be worthy of consideration… you know, the actual analysis of the full population is worthless because … it is hypothetical risk fearmongering .

Err. No. It is an analysis of the crimes committed by the UK transitioned male prison population with a very clear propensity towards committing sex crime at at least a male sex crime rate.

Twitter thread of totally not men, totally not committing violence.

twitter.com/ILOVETINY/status/1502954339815464962

And our own archive thread for anecdotal evidence unofficially collected.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3348290-It-will-never-happen-resource-thread?page=1

So the report was in 2019 based on 17/18 data: Link

do you really believe trans women are not at risk? Or do you just not care?

@Helleofabore @FireFlyBoogaloo

i grew up in the southern us in the 80s where homophobia was rampant. At the time the homophobes clutched their pearls for ‘the boys’ worried about their sons being in bathrooms/ changing rooms with gay men. I could basically copy and replace trans with gay men and girls with boys for all of the above.

history did not side with the homophobes, and I don’t see it siding with you.

violence against trans women specifically vs cisgender women

Can we ditch the "cis" nonsense? This is one of many reasons that women get annoyed with the trans agenda.

Maybe you should tell us what these crime statistics have to do with male access to female single sex spaces and the risk that those males pose to females of any age? That risk you keep calling ‘hypothetical’ and the discussion of it ‘fearmongering’ .

Oh, the Williams institute report. Yes, that one’s bullshit as always.

There’s a thread about it on here already, if I wasn’t on my phone on a train I’d link it for reference for anyone reading.

Meanwhile, the statistics on sex offenders in prison are real and the same pattern us observed across multiple countries. (Although it should be obvious without statistics,, to anyone with any sense.)

Do you not believe women in prison are being raped by men who say they’re trans or do you just not care?

So, no statistics to support your claim, just now resorting to the implications that we are like homophobe pearl clutchers. While ignoring the very clear analysis of the UK transitioned male prison population crime data.

Just a doubling down on what you would like reality to be, and to make the UK (this is a UK site after all) comparative with US south in the 80s… like it is relevant.

By the way, do you also have statistics to prove that homosexual and bisexual males are any less of a risk to children than the full male population?

Do you actually understand the significance of what we are asking?

Or do you just dismiss the logic because you wish to regard it has hateful? I mean, you were the one who asked about statistics in the first place. So, I would expect you understand how statistics, risk assessment and population definition works.