Is trans movement now, comparable to LGB movement back in the day?

[JasmineVioletRose]

Arrrrgh! DH has just said to me that perhaps the trans movement is comparable to the LGB movement of the 70’s and 80’s. And that because of this he feels uncomfortable with my terfy views. I’m trying really hard not to rant. Can anyone share any helpful links I can send him to address his misconceptions?

Well yes.

Just made this point. He says yes he agrees with me there.

But l, apparently some of the things I have said on occasion, when discussing this topic have not been "kind" 🤯

😂 bless him.

He either realises the current movement is actively damaging gay rights or he doesn’t. If he does then he’s playing dumb. If he doesn’t then he is dumb and the most cursory reading (plenty around) or top level chat (with you who’s right there…) will enlighten him.

This whole discussion has started from a discussions about the Tavistock & AlisonBailey.

He agrees with so much GC feminism. He was brought up by a staunch feminist who took him to Greenham Common as a toddler.

He works for a charity that supports vulnerable young people. Leads on a project supporting young women & girls ffs!

Still can't quite shake the feeling that I'm being "a bit mean" though.

I'm so fuming here!!! 😤

Yeah so his issue is with your attitude and the perception of nastiness. It's not becoming for a woman to hold an opinion which could offend others. It's not really about the actual issue. It's about women holding an opinion.

He's really not dumb.
I think he just needs persuading by someone other than me about the damage to LGB rights.

Please send me a helpful link explaining this. I've stomped into the other room now...

He's honestly not married to someone who is meek & mild here!

I just get so rilled when he challenges me on this I become incoherent.

I expect he'd be rather protective of his own boundaries should a tw trot up to him and insist he find the tw sexy and desirable and that he should have sex with the tw and the this ladydick.

Your boundaries aren't his to give away or even question.

I have made this point snd he agrees.

He agrees with not having trans women in women's sports.

He just still feels like sometimes the GC fem movement is a bit mean to a marginalised group.

I mean it's like the whole reason we are even having this discussion in society right?!

If I see it as a Venn diagram, with LGB in one circle and Trans in the other, I think there is a centre, crossover section where both movements share a similar resistance.

However, the rest - the majority - of the "Trans" circle on that diagram is an overstep, imo, and that needs to be addressed. Of course, there are those who will refuse to make that distinction, and who will say the whole circle needs to be accepted - but the longer they do, the more they run the risk of creating an entirely avoidable backlash.

I think the real issue is that like any historical events, you can compare them in some ways and not in others.

Look at the civil rights movement and gay rights, for example. They have some similarities, but there are some significant differences too. Because they weren't about the same things.

It sounds like he means they are the same in the sense that they are both fundamentally "correct" movements, but that people just aren't used to thinking that way yet.

Of course that is a possibility, and it's usually a good thing to consider whether resistance to change is based mainly on habit. But the fact that he is happy about where gay rights have gone, or thinks that movement was good, really has no bearing on whether the claims of trans activism are true or good. That's basically like saying, I thought mangoes would be gross but I liked them, so I will also like lychee nuts since they seem gross too.

Is he saying that TWAW?

The questions no one ever seems to want to answer when I ask them are:

• If your mother/sister/wife/daughter was in prison, would you be happy with a pre-op, unmedicated Transwoman who had been convicted of sexual crimes/violent crimes (as over 50% have been) being allocated as her cell mate and locked in with her overnight?

• if your mother/sister/wife/daughter was committed to a psychiatric facility, would you be happy with a pre-op, unmedicated Transwoman with mental health problems being allocated a bed next to hers?

• if your mother/sister/wife/daughter was raped and attended a womens only support group, would you think it reasonable for one of those 'women' to be physically male and can you think of any reason she may feel uncomfortable talking about her rape in front of a physically male stranger?

If he can empathise with natal women in those circumstances then he can understand that there are conflicts between what is 'right' for women and what is 'right' for Transwomen.

LGB wanted equal rights. The T wants to dominate.

Jane Claire Jones is good on this:

janeclarejones.com/2018/09/09/gay-rights-and-trans-rights-a-compare-and-contrast/

No links, but a few points

• aggression and threats of violence from TRAs to anyone who disagrees with them
• erosion of women's rights such as single-sex spaces. Put a rapist who identifies as a women in a women's prison? Why of course, what a great idea. I don't recall gay rights ever impinging on the rights of other people
• enforced language such as 'chestfeeding', idiotic terms such as 'cis women', and the recent ad we had on Scottish radio for cervical screening which managed not to mention the word 'woman' once. Again, gay people didn't try to change the way we talk about ourselves

It's certainly not gender-critical women who are unkind here.

He works for a charity that supports vulnerable young people. Ask him whether these individuals were placed in the right prison?

What's his feeling about the cotton ceiling issue? Is it kind for TWs to set up training sessions to teach coercion of lesbians to sleep with TWs when they don't want to?

Is he interested in sport?

Ask him why these individuals should be competing against women.

Maybe you should ask him where being 'kind' got women in regards to this issue? We know that it left many 'unkind' women unsupported which resulted in the mess we are unpicking now. Too many of us were 'kind' until we realised just what was happening.

And just how does he deal with his own bias that women should be kind and allow another group to erode the rights gained over decades? Does he understand that he has relegated women to the role of support human?

Maya's & Allison's employers paid lip service to them holding views supporting women's rights while not allowing them to voice them as it was considered 'unkind'. Just how 'kind' those employers were in these cases.

He understands & agrees all those points about protecting women's spaces.

I think he finds it hard to distinguish between AGPs and people with actual real gender dysphoria.

He thinks that some of the points I have made about sexual predators taking advantage of self ID are comparable to old bigoted views about LGB people being paedophilles

They’re just conceptually totally different. Being gay doesn’t affect anyone except that person and those they are romantically involved with.

whereas redefining the word “woman” and erasing sex in favour of gender identity absolutely affects women, and not in a good way.