gender woo and voting

[dropthevipers]

Is party stance on gender woo a deal breaker for you? I am/have been a center left type my whole life, would never previously have even considered voting tory-but I cannot vote for parties that spout manifest bollocks. How about you? Or you friends?

They are tinkering round the edges at best. Rushing Sunak has pledged that "mother will always mean mother" or some other vague shit and women are congratulating him. WTF?🤯

How about pledging to protect our single sex spaces? Protecting our right to speak? And our right to abortion? And what about pledging to do something about the piss poor rape statistics? Misogynistic police officers? Run down public services? Am I asking too much? Because I don't think I am.

After 12 years of Conservative government, feminists are expressing fucking gratitude to a Tory for being allowed to call ourselves "mother"?🤦‍♀️

We deserve more. I deserve better.

For those saying this gender woowoo came in on the Tories' watch, well yes, but have you read the Denton's guide explaining precisely how to bring this in under the radar? I won't hold it against the Tories that this happened on their watch, but I would have if they'd ignored evidence and continued to support it. Some MPs have done, but as a party they are very much putting the brakes on and attempting to row it back.

This movement is like ivy, it's taken over everywhere, and just like ivy it's going to take a lot of work to eradicate it. So I will vote for the party which is best placed to continue that work, which right now is the Tories.

I apologise. But Covid buggered up 8 months of my life last time I caught it and I need distraction while I try not to get all buggered up again this go around.

I think it’s probably for the best I didn’t end up in marketing 😆

Your daughter is likely to be exposed to predatory men in many places.

I'm surprised that you're not more worried about The Metropolitan Police than trans women in female changing rooms.

I would imagine the documented assaults by the former exceed the latter by a substantial number

*Your daughter is likely to be exposed to predatory men in many places.

I'm surprised that you're not more worried about The Metropolitan Police than trans women in female changing rooms.

I would imagine the documented assaults by the former exceed the latter by a substantial number*

Women can be concerned equally with both of these issues and I would suggest whatever the "numbers" are, more than zero is unacceptable.

The fact is any female should not be exposed to predatory men at all and removal of the protections that make this more likely is misogyny at its finest.

The idea we should be less concerned about sexual predators who use/misuse the law from one demographic rather than another is ridiculous (and no, I'm not suggesting all TW are sexual predators, rather that men will use gender ideology to gain access to women spaces they would otherwise be unable to frequent to enact violence against women).

Trans persons will not let politicians like Starmer and Sturgeon come to their senses. Remember that trans persons hold the whip hand. That is why I would not consider voting for them. The cult like aspect of trans ideology will stick like glue to politicians forever

"trans persons hold the whip hand"

do they really?

Remember that trans persons hold the whip hand.

I'm not sure what you mean @SammyScrounge. Are you talking about Penny Mordaunt? Jamie Wallis? Someone else?

Are you trying to say that this means we should vote for Labour now, when they still support the same stuff? How does that make sense?

@TooBigForMyBoots SammyScrounge

dropthevipers

Is party stance on gender woo a deal breaker for you? I am/have been a center left type my whole life, would never previously have even considered voting tory-but I cannot vote for parties that spout manifest bollocks. How about you? Or you friends?

Same here. I am appalled that leading politicians accept trans ideology or refuse to explain where they stood.So I'll never vote for Sturgeon or Starmer.

Never? Would you vote for them if they came to their senses?

Your question TooBig assume they have senses to come to that are different than the senses they have now. As Maya Angelou says "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time"

Your daughter is likely to be exposed to predatory men in many places.

This is true. It is why single sex spaces exist. We could not be free to move beyond the home until we had places where we could safely pee, because going to the loo, between clothes hobbling you and the position you assume, makes you exceedingly vulnerable to attack.

All the more reason to hold the line of single sex places being single sex.

Where there are no such facilities girls and women are at risk from predatory men. One story really stuck with me, a pair of sisters. They went out to pee as privately as they could. Raped, then murdered. And here we are being so “open minded” our brains fell out, splattering that hard on landing that we can’t even see we are working on pushing our daughters and grandaughters right back where we started from.

Fuck that for a game of soldiers. At least nobody will call me a bigot for questioning a lone Met officer’s intent (& society’s authority over my own instincts) as he walks into the ladies behind me.

When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.

Self ID was a Tory proposal made by a Tory PM as part of GRA Reform by the Tory party. Pushed by Tory Ministers and MPs. They were in power at the time and had been forb7 years.
The Tories (in power) have refused to make misogyny a crime.
The Tories (in power) have refused to protect women's right to abortion.

What does your quote tell you about the Conservative party @LordLoveADuck?

This, unfortunately, sums it up for me.

I can’t afford to vote based purely on this issue due to cost of living crisis etc. I also think a lot of the people who know what a women is doesn’t actually care about their rights or wellbeing.

However I am very happy to live in a democracy and for people to be able to vote for whoever they want for whatever reason they want. Always interesting to see views on threads like this.

Gender ideology already has a big impact in my life - I work in a job where we have been warned that saying anything that disagrees with it could get us dismissed (or the centre of a Stock-style panic). I already don’t teach parts of my speciality, as it can’t be done without obviously questioning gender ideology, and that would attract uproar. I very much have to “watch what I say” constantly, for fear of losing my job because someone’s decided they want to get into a rage about a pronoun or whatever. It impacts on my daily life all the time.

I know teachers who have been “moved on”/quietly not renewed because of student complaints that they weren’t fully onboard with gender ideology; academics with small kids and bills to pay who are terrified of being “cancelled”; local councillors who’ve been forced out by their parties for not being fully onboard with the woo.

It’s already affecting women’s lives in the most direct ways and under self-ID it will only get worse and worse.

If someone like Starmer, along with his front bench, can lie brazenly through his teeth about “TWAW” and not all women have cervixes and whatnot rubbish, what else is he willing to lie about or believe in? It’s a matter of basic truth and reality and honesty. If he can’t be honest that he knows it’s all bollocks, he’s not an honourable person. If he genuinely believes in it all, he’s a credulous idiot and shouldn’t be anywhere near the job of PM.

I used to be a party member. It was this nonsense that made me leave a party I believed in. I took the trouble to leave; why would I hold my nose now and go back on my principles?

So on this, I’m a single-issue voter. And if you or anyone else doesn’t like that, you can go and complain to Labour that they need to change course quick smart, instead of trying to shame and guilt me about it.

No. I am not saying vote for Labour.

I am pointing out how the Conservative party have actively eroded Women's rights since coming to power. FFS, Sunak says something about "mother means mother" and feminists are expressing their gratitude.

WTAF?🤯

How degraded we have become after 12 years of Conservative rule?😓

Almost everyone, in the UK, in Canada, in NZ, even in parts of the US and parts of Europe, was taken in by this stuff. Sure some individuals weren't, but governments, NGOs and other groups were.

Lots of the women here were too.

People aren't going to judge the Conservative Party more harshly than they judge themselves. People thought this was the next fight for rights, that it was medical best practice, that the science was solid even if incomplete, that people in political parties and institutions they trusted wouldn't let anything crazy happen.

My country is still deeply blind to what this is really all about, and to a large degree so are the other English speaking countries. Aside from the US which has some different factors. In many of these countries you still can't get stories published on this topic that are skeptical of the gender narrative, they have passed laws about conversion therapy that include trans kids, they consider misgendering hate speech, etc. In my country there is a man in jail because he wouldn't affirm his daughter, he's lost his child over it.

So yes, women and feminists are happy that the Conservatives have woken up and seen what is going on and spoken in public and said others can speak in public, and changed their approach on legislation and look to be tackling the penetration of this ideology into other social institutions.

It's very easy to imagine being stuck in the same place as Canada, which is what would have happened if the LP had won the last election.

My too.

I have a postal vote so I have time to write the reasons why I'm not voting.

I also put two clear crosses because a decision has to be made who you have attempted to vote for.

Have a look at the 'valid' votes at the end of these.

www.electoralcommission.org.uk/sites/default/files/pdf_file/UKPE-doubtfuls-booklet.pdf

The Tories (in power) have refused to protect women's right to abortion.

Huh? Abortion is freely available in the UK up to 24 weeks (and the recent issues in NI relating to practical provision can’t be directly attributed to the tories as actually the NI law is now more liberal than the rest of the UK). For fetuses with disabilities, abortion is permitted up to term. The Abortion Act 1967 has been in force over 50 years. It’s important not to keep looking to the US and assume that their issues apply here. Even if the law isn’t framed exactly how some people might prefer, the important thing is whether women who want an abortion can get one and to that, the answer is yes. I also cannot recall abortion reform being on the agenda in a major way during recent Tory rule.

i do agree with your other points about the Tories not having women friendly policies though.

@TooBigForMyBoots Self ID was a Tory proposal made by a Tory PM as part of GRA Reform by the Tory party. Pushed by Tory Ministers and MPs. They were in power at the time and had been for 7 years.
The Tories (in power) have refused to make misogyny a crime.
The Tories (in power) have refused to protect women's right to abortion.

What does your quote tell you about the Conservative party @LordLoveADuck?

Pluvia already has pointed out to you that "The GRA was brought in under a Labour Government in 2004. The Equality Act 2010 came into force in October 2010 when the Tories had been in power for five months. It was debated and drawn up under Labour AFAIA.

There was a worldwide financial crisis still playing out at the time and no one was paying much attention to apparently inconsequential things like the Equality Act. It wasn't really until self ID was proposed that they sat up and took notice and started to rectify the situation. Labour have done nothing but take the Stonewall line and punish women like Rosie Duffield for speaking out. The Tories have actually started to remedy the situation.

Does Pluvia have the facts wrong TooBig?

As for your point that he Tories (in power) have refused to make misogyny a crime.That is true however Labour will make matters worse for women and they won't be making misogyny a crime either. In fact their support of gender ideology simply reveals the extent of their misogyny. Trans ideology is at its core deeply misogynistic. You need only look at whose feeling get prioritized to see the misogyny at play.

The abortion issue is not insignificant but it pales in comparison to self-id and other Woke ideas that will happen should Labour be elected.

…. but her e-mails

@GCandproud amp.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/29/dominic-raab-says-right-to-abortion-does-not-need-to-be-in-bill-of-rights

It wasn't really until Self ID was proposed that they say up took notice and started to rectify the ituation

Self ID was proposed as A Tory policy under Thetesa May. Here she is announcing it.
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2017/oct/18/theresa-may-plans-to-let-people-change-gender-without-medical-checks

Well, he’s right, it doesn’t need to be because (apart from in NI), the law has been working pretty well since the 1960s and gives most of the discretion to doctors, who, as I said, can perform abortions up to term in certain circumstances. The Church of England also is not opposed to abortion. The idea that Roe v Wade would happen here is pure scaremongering.
Additionally, the BoR is still in Bill form and was only published a few weeks ago. So to call the tories anti abortion is stretching it a bit.

I didn't call them anti abortion. I pointed out that they are refusing to protect our rights. More will come as the rights we had under the EU also fail to make it into the Bill of Rights.

The Conservative Party are no friend to women. They never have been.