gender woo and voting

[dropthevipers]

Is party stance on gender woo a deal breaker for you? I am/have been a center left type my whole life, would never previously have even considered voting tory-but I cannot vote for parties that spout manifest bollocks. How about you? Or you friends?

Yes, it's dealbreaker. We're fighting for our futures, for our daughters and granddaughters. If you let anything distract you from this vital issue, you betray us.

@TooBigForMyBoots

He issued his statement and then he stepped back. No pronoun demands, no further drama.

Except his Sky TV interview, where he said he would be beginning his medical transformation ASAP.

I fail to see how the first paragraph is related to the second.

Cisgender people have done similar things, you know?

Self ID - Tory proposal.
Explosion of male bodied folk demanding women's places - Happened under Tory government.
Trans contagion amongst teens - Happened under Tory government.
Women being arrested for talking - Happened under a Tory government. Some Tory MPs were the ones reporting them.
Make Misogyny a Hate Crime - Tory government said "No".
Protect women's right to abortion - Tory government said "No".

Granny, how did this happen? Who did you vote for?

If Labour were to categorically state that they will not pursue self ID legislation, actively promote single sex facilities, and had another think about whether leaving the EU was such a success , as well as putting up credible opposition, I might reconsider voting for them. If I had a decent Tory I would consider them too, but would be really unlikely to vote for them.spoiling votes seems the best option as things are.

@TooBigForMyBoots

Well, he’s an adult, he can do that if he wants.

Why do posters keep saying that self ID was a Conservative Party proposal. It was not. The Women and Equalities Select Committee published their Transgender Equality Report in 2016. The WESC was a cross party group. The recommendations were about far more than self ID but self ID was embraced by all major parties and included in their manifestos at subsequent GE's.

The PDF version of the report is available on line as is the government response to it. I can't link to the PDF which is why I've linked to the version below. The names of all MP's are listed in the PDF version and include members from the Tories, Labour and the SNP.

The section about evidence submitted is interesting, there are a number of names there that MN FWR posters will recognise. Who could forget Jess Bradley?

publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201516/cmselect/cmwomeq/390/39002.htm

Apparently Zahawi will launch a campaign based on (partly) protecting children from the influence of radical activists.

Good.

All the TRAs are mad so we know they know it’s them doing it.

I live in Germany, where the new(ish) centre-left-led government has (a) presented new legislation introducing self-ID and (b) done away with legislation prohibiting abortion providers from 'advertising' (i.e. publishing any information about) abortion services, and is also discussing other positive changes in the area of reproductive rights.

I'm not happy about (a), which I believe will have real-life negative consequences for girls and women, but I think (b) is more important in terms of actual, practical impact on women's lives. The left might not be able to define the category of people who might need abortions, but at least they're fighting for that nebulous group's right to actually have access to them. I'd prefer to be able to choose a good option rather than just the least bad option, but I'm not going to cut off my nose to spite my face.

Plus, while women's rights are extremely important to me, I'm more worried about the impending climate catastrophe, and the parties that know what a woman is are also the ones most in thrall to the fossil fuel industry.

So yes, until a better option comes along, I'll probably continue to hold my nose and vote for the left.

@GCBear

Germany where pregnant women are coerced into “sex work” in industrial-sized brothels? The progressive left there are even worse than they are here. The right to abortion is important; we have that right in the UK and it’s not under threat, so we don’t need to choose between our rights to free speech and our rights to bodily autonomy.

I used to be a member of the Greens here in Canada, though I've voted for every major party over the years because I tend to put a lot of weight on the quality of the local MP.

It really hasn't ever been a one issue thing for me, because gender woo seems to be accompanied by other policies I think are bad - in the case of the Greens for example around sex work. As well as around free speech, education, and general authoritarianism.

One of the things that was important to me in the Greens was that they did not whip their MPs in any votes. Then a few years ago the leader was challenged that this meant a Green could vote for restrictions on abortion, or even bring a private members bill on it, and she responded by basically saying that they would prevent it in other ways. IN terms of our parties, the Greens, the NDP (similar to Labour) and the Liberals are all pretty authoritarian in terms of their MPs on many if not all issues. That's a problem for me.

Gender woo is also a subset of identity politics which I think is toxic.

So really, enough to affect my vote.

Why do people keep saying it was a Conservative Party proposal?

Here's Conservative PM Theresa May announcing it. www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2017/oct/18/theresa-may-plans-to-let-people-change-gender-without-medical-checks

I’m in Scotland. I find life under the SNP increasingly crap. But I can’t vote Labour. So I hold my nose and vote Tory,

the snp has lost the plot. It’s like a cult

And here's a report about Conservative Minister Penny Mordaunt on MNet.😆 www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/voices/penny-mourdant-mumsnet-gender-recognition-act-a8835621.html%3famp

Sunak is on board. He’s leading with a Women’s Manifesto - female sports, no erasure of language. We really have made a difference. Well, I haven’t, but brave women have.

Great news

I like to flip it on its head a little. I am happy to vote Labour as long as they drop the whole TWAW stuff. That will improve society for those who are most marginalised. It’s not about me choosing the party, it’s about the party choosing whether it wants me to vote for them.
Personally, I will probably be okay under the tories. I am middle class and quite comfortable. I know many won’t. I am very happy to pay more tax to make the very poorest more comfortable. All I ask is that this TRA nonsense is dropped (and it is nonsense from beginning to end). If it’s not, they won’t get my vote and it will have been their choice to press ahead with this despite knowing how many object to it. Choice is theirs, not mine.

Excellent news

Yes, i understand. it's one thing not prioritising it. It's quite another prioritising the opposite.

I’d vote for Screaming Lord Sutch himself if he was the only one yelling “hairy bollocks on show mate !” while all other options were outdoing each other complimenting the robes.

Why wouldn’t I ? It’s not like most people would be going “eurggg… anything bar the
tories !” if the alternative was bending the knee to a man in a frock saying magic words that turned one material reality into another material reality cos the Pope said so. It doesn’t suddenly become a new and somehow more acceptable kind of “repeat the doctrine or burn heretic” just cos the frock is from Top Shop rather than Vatican issued.

At this point in history the worst burns I’m going to get are from the twitter flavoured bright sparks who think I think being being called “far right” , “radical feminist” and “Tory Scum” is worse fate than losing reality. That’s a much better deal than we got back in the middle ages when the “die in a fire” was most often heard when strapped to a stick surround by tinder dry twigs.

I am extremely surprised to realise that I will actually vote tory next time if there is a GC presence in leadership at the top. I never, ever thought I would feel like this but I absolutely cannot vote for a party that would have my daughter exposed to predatory men in every place she goes and will champion damaging medical treatments for vulnerable young people in response to a psychological issue.
Particularly allowing the sort of men who seek to break down the boundaries that keep women and girls safe Into the places where we are the most vulnerable.
Everything else can wait IMO.
I really am astonished that I'm in this position. But here we are.

All of this happened under Conservative government, as the result of Conservative policies, driven by Conservative PMs, Ministers and MPs.

And at this moment in time they are the only party (unless Mourdant wins) walking fast in the opposite direction from the whole sorry, stupid. sordid mess of trying to be more right-on than thou.

Except the SDP who I think led the way on this issue specifically, well before the Tories changed direction. But while I really like William Clouston and SDP policies line up better with my own noughts on more issues than the tories do, they can’t make enough of a dent on a national level at crunch time. Not yet.