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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How to refuse to share pronouns verbally

242 replies

EthelbertaChickerel · 23/06/2022 10:18

I'm going to a course tomorrow, and have just received an email from the course leader. This includes her pronouns, and I'm now concerned we will all be asked to share them verbally when the day starts.

If it is just writing them on badges, I will leave it blank, but I don't know how big the group is, and I am worried that if it is small, we will be asked to introduce ourselves and share pronouns. I'm fine with the introductions, just not with the pronouns.

What is the best, but most polite, way to shut this down? I have paid quite a lot of money for this day and want to get as much out of it as possible, but am not happy to compromise my principles.

TL:DR - I love the Mumsnet standard 'my pronouns are sex-based, like my oppression', and would be happy to put that in an email, but not sure about saying it.
Does anyone have any alternatives?

OP posts:
SerendipityJane · 23/06/2022 17:40

Why is it she/her and they/them rather than she or they?

Why does it have to be any existing word at all ?

Brillig/slithy

now put that in your "app" and shove it up your arse.

Bergamotte · 23/06/2022 18:02

similarminimer · 23/06/2022 17:30

Why is it she/her and they/them rather than she or they? The 2nd bit leads grammatically from the first. Or are there they/her who would like to be referred to a they, but anything they own is hers?

You may know that grammatically "she" matches with "her," but people can't be expected to know all possible pronoun combinations.
For example would you be confident that "ze" matches with "zir"?

More examples on this site, which is a tool for people to share the pronouns they want to be referred to by:
pronouny.xyz/pronouns/list/public

EthelbertaChickerel · 23/06/2022 18:15

LiesDoNotBecomeUs · 23/06/2022 14:15

I don't dictate on grammar matters outside of work.

I really like this response, as it is directly relevant to my job (although the course is not).

OP posts:
Terfydactyl · 23/06/2022 18:33

AgathaAllAlong · 23/06/2022 13:43

Hang on a minute, have I read this right - you guys don't use pronouns? So do your friends and family always refer to you as 'she' or 'her' they literally say your name every single time they talk about you?

Perhaps you don't want to answer because you are nonbinary and don't want to disclose this.

More likely, what you find offensive about it is the idea that the person can't tell what pronouns you go by from looking at you. Well, the reality is that they can't. The people talking to you do not know what you want to be called unless you tell them. It's not an offensive question, any more than asking you if you go by a nickname.

Presumably you want to use the occasion to posture about trans views. So you could always say "my pronouns are female, like my sex" ... but most people have pronouns, it's weird to refuse to disclose them.

also they almost certainly will not ask. loads of people have them in emails, but would not ask you.

I do not care what my family or friends or random people call me whenI'm not there.
Zero fucks given. I dont have a clue how they talk about me.

Do you care what anyone says about you when your not even there? How do you know what words they use?

goldfinchonthelawn · 23/06/2022 18:39

I would be SO tempted to make an issue out of it by feigning total ignorance:
My pronouns? I'm sorry I don't understand? What pronouns? You can use 'you' if you are talking to me - does that sound good? I use I when referring to myself. I thought that was universal. Please would you explain? How I want to be referred to behind my back? I'm Goldfinch? He or she? You want to know if I prefer to be talked about as he or she? I need to declare this do I? Can I give it some thought?

Vebrithien · 23/06/2022 18:58

So.
Asking for a friend...
How does one pronounce these Yogy-thingy principles...?

Gcautist · 23/06/2022 19:01

I was recently introduced to someone who
doesnt use pronouns with regard to themselves and everyone had to use their name. I didn’t have the guts to ask if there was a reason for that but I admired their stance.

RoyKentsChestHair · 23/06/2022 19:04

Ohsugarhoneyicetea · 23/06/2022 16:44

I haven't decided what my pronouns are yet, as Ive been working on my adjectives. Brilliant, witty, engaging, stunning and brave are the key words. Im mandating their use in any and all discussions about me where I am not present. And particularly in any kind of performance review. I'll be circulating a document later with the comprehensive list. Any deviations will be regarded as a hate crime.

This one wins for me!! Grin

Veryverycalmnow · 23/06/2022 19:08

Ohsugarhoneyicetea · 23/06/2022 16:44

I haven't decided what my pronouns are yet, as Ive been working on my adjectives. Brilliant, witty, engaging, stunning and brave are the key words. Im mandating their use in any and all discussions about me where I am not present. And particularly in any kind of performance review. I'll be circulating a document later with the comprehensive list. Any deviations will be regarded as a hate crime.

This is great!

MrsOwainGlyndŵr · 23/06/2022 19:19

I would say "call me anything you like as long as you don't call me English"!
I'm Welsh. I probably wouldn't say that.

saveforthat · 23/06/2022 19:28

What I actually said @WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles was mine isn't there why isn't there an Other category and they said what are your pronouns then and I said Her Majesty and they said that comes under She/Her 😄

lovelyweathertoday · 24/06/2022 07:07

More examples on this site, which is a tool for people to share the pronouns they want to be referred to by:
https://pronouny.xyz/pronouns/list/public

Is that website satire? I genuinely can't tell.

ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus · 24/06/2022 07:10

TullyApplebottom · 23/06/2022 10:29

“You only need to refer to me in the third person when I’m not here; and I’m long past caring what people say about me behind my back”

Good one!

lovelyweathertoday · 24/06/2022 07:12

I would completely ignore requests for pronouns. So introduce myself as "Hi, I'm lovelyweather, I work in X team as a Y."

"Welcome lovely, what are you pronouns?"

lovelyweathertoday · 24/06/2022 07:13

Damnit, post didn't work correctly. Answer to the direct pronoun question (which is unlikely to be asked at all) was a blank stare until they move on.

Numbat2022 · 24/06/2022 07:21

I think you're unlikely to be directly asked - you can just ignore the request and 'forget' to say. This is my approach at my very pronoun-keen work. However, if I am ever asked I plan to say 'Oh, whatever you think most appropriate '. (Being openly GC would be way too much hassle - I'm hoping this all fades away in a few years and gets forgotten.)

For what it's worth I present as very feminine, big boobs, usually wear dresses, it's blindingly obvious I'm a woman. But if someone wanted to be obtuse and refer to me as something else, that's up to them.

bumblingbovine49 · 24/06/2022 07:24

I would say I am happy to addressed by whatever pronoun the person talking to me feels is most appropriate .

I would them assume most people will use female pronouns but If someone calls me him/ he ( withe by mistake or to make a point) then I will serenely accept it I am female whatever pronoun is used to describe me.

BarryKentPoet · 24/06/2022 07:28

"I don't know what my pronouns are, I've not been tested for it yet"

Iknowitisheresomewhere · 24/06/2022 08:46

If I am brave enough, this is what I plan to say if I ever get asked.

My name is X. I am female. Within the bounds of professional acceptability I don’t mind what anyone calls me when I am not there. I do mind the implication that I might want to dictate how people refer to me. And I feel that stating my pronouns would imply acceptance of an ideology that thinks of womanhood or manhood as a feeling in preference to a biological reality. I do not hold that belief and I think it is damaging to everyone, particularly women. If however anyone thinks that I might refer to them with a pronoun they consider wrong, please let me know, now or privately.

SirVixofVixHall · 24/06/2022 08:54

PomegranateOfPersephone · 23/06/2022 10:45

I prefer not to mandate the pronouns people use about me as I am interested in how others perceive me so I prefer not to tell them how to perceive me but to leave them free to use their own judgment.

Possibly adding…
I feel this approach supports a deeper and more honest interaction.

Very good response.

Alltheprettyseahorses · 24/06/2022 09:06

This! You're there to benefit yourself, not to help shore up the trainer's middle-class affectations.

Alltheprettyseahorses · 24/06/2022 09:08

AlisonDonut · 23/06/2022 10:33

I paid alot of money for this course, please stick to the course content and call me by my name.

Whoa, whoa, whoa - where did my quote tweet go? I'll try again. AlisonDonut nailed it on the first page.

MagpiePi · 24/06/2022 09:24

I would be inclined to do a massive eye roll and say 'Really? Pronouns are soooo over?'

GoodThinkingMax · 24/06/2022 09:29

Whenever people go around the circle, when it comes to my turn, I just say my name. I simply omit "my" pronouns, and don't say anything.

If you're challenged, just say you prefer not to.

TheFeistyFeminist · 24/06/2022 09:30

I fear this is coming down the track at work, we're talking about doing some Pride-related activities later in the year.

Part of me wants to have the confidence to reply with either "I make no attempt to compel the speech of others" or something along those lines.

Part of me wants to point out to the organisation that the man who puts he/him in his email signature today might put she/her in his email signature tomorrow, and am I supposed to nod and smile if I then find him/her in the ladies' loos?!

Part of me wants to say I won't declare pronouns any more than I'll declare my religious belief, sexual orientation or disability status - none of which have any bearing on my ability to do my job.

Part of me fears I could put my job at risk if the new HR Director turns out to be more woke than I realise.

So I'd probably just look pointedly at the next person to speak, and if pushed say "I won't be doing that".