How to refuse to share pronouns verbally

[EthelbertaChickerel]

I'm going to a course tomorrow, and have just received an email from the course leader. This includes her pronouns, and I'm now concerned we will all be asked to share them verbally when the day starts.

If it is just writing them on badges, I will leave it blank, but I don't know how big the group is, and I am worried that if it is small, we will be asked to introduce ourselves and share pronouns. I'm fine with the introductions, just not with the pronouns.

What is the best, but most polite, way to shut this down? I have paid quite a lot of money for this day and want to get as much out of it as possible, but am not happy to compromise my principles.

TL:DR - I love the Mumsnet standard 'my pronouns are sex-based, like my oppression', and would be happy to put that in an email, but not sure about saying it.
Does anyone have any alternatives?

‘More likely, what you find offensive about it is the idea that the person can't tell what pronouns you go by from looking at you. Well, the reality is that they can't. The people talking to you do not know what you want to be called unless you tell them. It's not an offensive question, any more than asking you if you go by a nickname.’

What I find offensive about it is that that’s a lie. I’m obviously female. Not a single person in my forty-odd years of life has ever treated me as if they think I’m male. The pretence otherwise offends me. I don’t believe in gender identity. The assumption that I am obligated to participate in someone else’s belief system also offends me.

This idea that we have pronoun ownership is a very recent linguistic development in the English language.

Until very recently we would use the pronoun that corresponded with the sex we perceived the person to be. With transwomen and transmen we would either perceive them as women or men, or recognise that is how they wish to be perceived and probably be polite. It is only with the rise of the "non-binary thems this has become an issue.

Incidentally in your two examples the first I would use names and would consider your phrasing rude/abrupt. the second I would use name and drop the second pronoun.

I'm not possessive about pronouns.

'I think you know what my pronouns are' :)

Hi My name is X, I don’t dictate how others should refer to me when I’m not around, I don’t have that kind of ego.

Have you seen the article referred to here on the board today by a NB writer, talking about how over use and over enthusiasm regarding pronouns by those who did not need to be but want to do so out of really, virtue signalling and doing the new fashionable 'look how cool I am' thing rather than any sincere interest or care, has made them thoroughly dispirited about the whole situation and to just want people to stop and use their name instead?

It's not a bandwagon. It's not a game for progressive people to play. Those for whom it is relevant can be supported to share them. Performative activities like 'lets all demonstrate our coolness (and politics) by stating our pronouns' are not helpful. And as mentioned on thread: this pressurises everyone to state their position or lie to avoid criticism, and would affect a TQ+ questioning person as much as someone who just is not comfortable participating in really rather questionable political games.

Do you actually care about the values and principles and people involved? Or just about a quick purity check while demonstrating your own cool status?

I don't dictate on grammar matters outside of work.

"Hang on a minute, have I read this right - you guys don't use pronouns?"
I do, I use the pronouns, 'I' and 'me' to refer to myself.

"So do your friends and family always refer to you as 'she' or 'her' they literally say your name every single time they talk about you?"

I actually don't know or care how my friends and family refer to me. It's not something I'm super concerned with.

"More likely, what you find offensive about it is the idea that the person can't tell what pronouns you go by from looking at you. Well, the reality is that they can't. The people talking to you do not know what you want to be called unless you tell them. It's not an offensive question, any more than asking you if you go by a nickname."

I'm not offended at all. The reality is that in the vast majority of cases people have the pronouns that align with their sex.

"Presumably you want to use the occasion to posture about trans views."
I don't want to posture about trans views, but I certainly want to make it clear that I don't want to play along with the pronoun game nor do I believe in the gender stuff. I feel very much like it's being invited to pray against my will. It's an ideology I don't subscribe to.

I'd also point out that it is counterproductive for everyone to declare pronouns. As humans our brains are very good at recognising patterns and then performing "shortcuts" once the pattern is established.

If we get used to most people using pronouns traditionally our brains are more likely to skip over those making atypical pronouns.

This.

Trans people got along just fine 5 years ago too without this pronoun nonsense. If anything the situation has gotten worse for trans individuals recently due to all these people campaigning and being offended on their behalf.

If you saw a trans woman, you would refer to them as "she" out of politeness, to ask what their pronouns are would be to state that you know that they're trans and not doing a good job of it. Asking for pronouns is actually transphobic.

Plus there is now a growing demand in the corporate world for everyone to announce their pronouns at every meeting. Seriously if you are on the clock you're burning a lot of money going through these introductions and doesn't show much confidence in decisiveness.

Pronouns are just common sense, asking for them just makes people look a bit dim.

Yeah I think I'd say, "Hi, I'm Sarah and I'm, er, female."

Then if pressed, "I don't have any special pronouns. You can use whatever pronouns you like." polite smile

Was there paper and pens for people to write their own pronouns if the one they were looking for wasn't available?

I'd have been tempted to write "me/I/my" and stand next to it.

To answer your "Do men get asked this?" question, I have once.

Similar situation to you, group thing, all going round in a circle introducing themselves. Asked for name, pronouns, job title/what we do.

Two women went before me, both she/her, then it got to me.

"Hi I'm fdgdfgdfgdfg, I'm a web developer."
The ringleader pipes up "And your pronouns?"
So I look at her like shes just asked what species I was and answer "I'm fairly obviously a bloke"

She promptly moved on to the next person and none of the remaining 10 or so people mentioned their pronouns.

So men do get asked, but I reckon we get let off easier. I think these people think "Oh, he just doesn't get it" but thats not it. We're well aware of all this bullshit, we just think its a load of crap and our privilege lets us get away with ignoring it

Of course we all use pronouns.

What we mean is that we use the regular sex-based ones which in most cases are bloody obvious from looking at us.

If other people feel that they have a gender identity which doesn't "match" their sex and they want to use non-standard pronouns, it's up to them to ask people to do that.

But forcing everyone else to state "their pronouns" is essentially compelling us to say that we have a gender identity and state what it is.

If you don't have a gender identity you don't need to state your pronouns, in the same way that if you are an atheist you don't need to state whether you are Catholic or Protestant.

We have a winner 🍾

"No thanks. I don't have a gender identity."

It isn’t that we don’t use pronouns simply that we don’t demand that others use particular pronouns about us. We accept that each individual has his or her own perceptions about us (correctly perceiving our sex 99.9% of the time) which is a lot less weird than telling people to ignore their own perceptions and suspend their judgments. Also I reckon most of us don’t feel that our existence is threatened by people forming their own opinions of us because most of us are not narcissists with a fragile false self to protect. Therefore most of us won’t fly into a narcissistic rage if we are taken for something we are not.

Maybe some of us don’t want to play the pronouns circle game as some of us don’t want to participate in or normalise narcissistic behaviours…

@AgathaAllAlong I don’t “have” pronouns. They don’t belong to me — they’re simply features of language. I don’t own language. Neither does anyone else….

— As I said recently on another thread, my increasingly preferred option is just to say (as a very obviously female person who dresses in a very “feminine” way) “my pronouns are he/him” and move on without batting an eyelid. It’s just as nonsensical as all the rest of it and no-one can possibly challenge it without looking like they are being transphobic — or they just think that they have heard wrong. Anyone from HR tries to complain you aren’t taking it seriously? Either tell them your gender identity is very sensitive or just say “oh sorry I didn’t really understand what we were being asked to do.”

The beauty of it is that it usefully points up the total idiocy of it all whilst still apparently playing “within the rules”. After all, I think I have quite a masculine personality as a lesbian who takes no shit at work; why shouldn’t I try out identifying as a man every so often? Maybe I’ll get paid the same as my male colleagues! That would be a bonus! 😃

Am also looking forward to hearing myself described as “he/him” for the first time 👍

I like this too

What about just stating your name and if asked further say, 'What do you mean, pronouns?' And if asked again, say, 'Why would you ask that?' Just keep looking blank, slightly puzzled but polite.

I mean, there is a limit to how much time a facilitator is going to want to spend on explaining their decision to adopt a rather poorly-thought-through bit of ideology in the introduction session.

but I might say "ask him to pass it to her"

How rude and abrupt. I wouldn't say that.

I would say "ask Bob to pass it to Sara".

'No thank you'.

If pushed on it, say that you don't want to put people in a situation where they feel they have to make a decision to share their identity in case they are not ready.

And also that the whole thing is bullshit