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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Transwomen are really upset by HRT shortages

625 replies

Smileandactlikeitsfine · 04/06/2022 00:05

It makes their moods all over the place.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/hrt-crisis-impact-on-trans-community_uk_627bbc19e4b009a811cc19f3/

I mean us perimenopausal women take hrt for few other essential functions as well, but just as long as your moods are even mate.

OP posts:
Uutuni · 05/06/2022 10:28

allow Trans Women to use single occupancy disabled toilets
No. Disabled people have fought long and hard for disabled spaces and there's still not enough.
Campaign for a third space, do not use disabled toilets unless you are disabled.

slowpoke5001 · 05/06/2022 10:33

I mean in summary so far...

  • Transgender Women are not stealing HRT supplies, they take up less than 1.5% of the total prescriptions. (did calculations for this earlier)
  • There is an issue with Transgender Women in female bathrooms for religious reasons and men posing as women in order to target them easier but forcing Trans Women into Male bathrooms isn't the solution
  • Prisons are a pretty bad issue and should not just take whatever a person self identifies at the time they are arrested
  • Calling a Trans Women by there preferred pronouns is just a sign of respect
nannoggshere · 05/06/2022 10:34

Slowpoke: i don't believe you have once mentioned any concern for your alleged girlfriend and her rights to obtain HRT without being impeded when her time comes. You have been wholly selfish in your quest to make this age and sex-based issue all about you and you have shamelessly attempted to garner sympathy for youself whilst changing usernames to type offensive comments to us here. You know that the admins can tell its you right? You should be ashamed for the way you have behaved, we are not angry with you slowpoke, we are disappointed that you followed the predictable behaviour and inserted yourself into women's space yet again with your slowpoking. You have also mentioned that mumsnet seems worse than incel forums, well how would you know that young man? Because you are the unwanted interloper, kindly remove yourself from this women's space that doesn't concern you.

In the meantime women are suffering from erratic/loss of supply off oestrogen products that are being given to a sex class that doesn't need them www.mumsnet.com/talk/menopause

slowpoke5001 · 05/06/2022 10:35

Campaign for a third space, do not use disabled toilets unless you are disabled
Great, a 3rd space would be ideal but I don't see anyone from here campaigning for it because they are under the assumption that Trans Men and Women going into the bathrooms of there opposite gender is fine as is

slowpoke5001 · 05/06/2022 10:36

and that's why if you can't call a Trans Women a Women there will be no progress

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/06/2022 10:36

In summary:

I don't believe in gender identity ideology, it's an incoherent and absurd quasi religious faith position

Being female has shaped and continues to shape my life

MTF trans people have entirely male experiences and I don't differentiate one group of male sexed people from another in terms of how I feel about them in female spaces

Uutuni · 05/06/2022 10:39

slowpoke5001 · 05/06/2022 10:35

Campaign for a third space, do not use disabled toilets unless you are disabled
Great, a 3rd space would be ideal but I don't see anyone from here campaigning for it because they are under the assumption that Trans Men and Women going into the bathrooms of there opposite gender is fine as is

Go start the campaign then.

CupidStunt22 · 05/06/2022 10:39

slowpoke5001 · 04/06/2022 17:35

@CupidStunt22 It's isn't an offensive slur though so i'm a tad confused. I think you mean you just don't like the phrase which I guess makes sense

I find it offensive. Are you suggesting you are in charge of what is offensive or not?

Do you use terms for people they have asked you not to?

Artichokeleaves · 05/06/2022 10:41

slowpoke5001 · 05/06/2022 09:56

By not using the correct pronouns you are saying they shouldn't exist as they are now. Even if you don't think it makes a big difference it does to them and it ultimately boils down to respect for other people

And respect is a two way street.

Many women were very happy to use whatever pronouns made someone comfortable, until this escalated to:

  • You cannot refuse to respect someone's chosen identity, so you need to have sex with them even though you're homosexual and they're male

  • You must respect someone's chosen identity, so you need to accept any and all male people with any presentation using women's toilets even if this means that some women are left unable to use any toilet at all - and the person they should respect and prioritise has no reciprocal care or respect or interest in their needs and their exclusion and their lived experience

  • You must respect someone's chosen identity so you must give up female only sports and pretend this is ok, and there's no unfairness and there's nothing to see here because how sad for a male person and their needs if you don't

  • You must accept you can no longer go to a rape crisis service and be supported, or go to a refuge to escape a life threatening situation because your trauma means you cannot use a mixed sex space - and it would be too sad and hurtful to a male person to care about you too and let you have female only services existing alongside mixed sex women's services.... what, you're sad too? Well no, somehow that doesn't matter. Your inclusion doesn't matter. This isn't reciprocal or two way, this is about male people mattering and female people not.

  • You must surrender your words. And sex based rights. And not say things that might make a male person feel sad or dysphoric or rejected regardless of the impact upon you and other women of not saying these things...

Yeah, no. At this point, it stops being a good will thing. If it's not two way, if it's not reciprocal, it is just abusive and male supremacist.

If you want to change this and get the good will back, it is going to have to start from no longer hammering on women about 'poor TQ+ people, it's only a BIT of stuff they want from you' which just ignores all of this and tries to slide the harms under the rug. It is going to have to then include a LOT of TW proving that they are able to care about female people too and are willing to permit female people's needs and feelings and language and identity to exist alongside theirs.

Because otherwise you get what you're seeing more and more of: just a flat No. This is what happens when you relentlessly take advantage of people's 'kindness'. It runs out. And they realise that they are being taken for mugs and the little tiny 'just a pronoun' is the wedge the door is rammed open with.

CupidStunt22 · 05/06/2022 10:41

slowpoke5001 · 05/06/2022 10:36

and that's why if you can't call a Trans Women a Women there will be no progress

I don't know what kind of progress youre looking for, but any progress that involves calling non-women (trans-women) women is not the kind of "progress" we are looking for.
Its the exact opposite of progress in fact.

Uutuni · 05/06/2022 10:42

Beyond frustrating how premenopause symptoms (and women's health issues in general) can be so dismissed by doctors.

nannoggshere · 05/06/2022 10:43

nannoggshere · 05/06/2022 10:34

Slowpoke: i don't believe you have once mentioned any concern for your alleged girlfriend and her rights to obtain HRT without being impeded when her time comes. You have been wholly selfish in your quest to make this age and sex-based issue all about you and you have shamelessly attempted to garner sympathy for youself whilst changing usernames to type offensive comments to us here. You know that the admins can tell its you right? You should be ashamed for the way you have behaved, we are not angry with you slowpoke, we are disappointed that you followed the predictable behaviour and inserted yourself into women's space yet again with your slowpoking. You have also mentioned that mumsnet seems worse than incel forums, well how would you know that young man? Because you are the unwanted interloper, kindly remove yourself from this women's space that doesn't concern you.

In the meantime women are suffering from erratic/loss of supply off oestrogen products that are being given to a sex class that doesn't need them www.mumsnet.com/talk/menopause

In the meantime women are suffering from erratic/loss of supply off oestrogen products that are being given to a sex class that doesn't need them www.mumsnet.com/talk/menopause

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/06/2022 10:43

Many women were very happy to use whatever pronouns made someone comfortable, until this escalated to:

When it's laid out like that it's obvious to anyone who cares about women that it's misogyny on stilts.

nannoggshere · 05/06/2022 10:43

This

Belovedfool · 05/06/2022 10:43

Belovedfool · 05/06/2022 09:26

www.mumsnet.com/talk/menopause

These are the women I'm deeply concerned about. Sitting in one's tree as a pigeon generally does, perhaps one is in too distant a position to see or hear the suffering being experienced by women, even by those who can actually get their HRT.

Or perhaps one simply doesn't give a shit.

I'm going for the latter. Anyone think differently?

Deliriumoftheendless · 05/06/2022 10:44

slowpoke5001 · 05/06/2022 10:35

Campaign for a third space, do not use disabled toilets unless you are disabled
Great, a 3rd space would be ideal but I don't see anyone from here campaigning for it because they are under the assumption that Trans Men and Women going into the bathrooms of there opposite gender is fine as is

Many of us here have suggested 3rd spaces for a very long time.

Trans women are rejecting them.

that’s why there’s no campaign for them.

I would support a third space, open to anyone who wants it, no one wants it.

PonyPatter44 · 05/06/2022 10:45

It is not women's job to fight for third spaces for trans women. We've got enough to do. Why can't they do that for themselves?

@slowpoke5001 , take your suggestions of ID cards and trans-only toilets to the trans twitter accounts and forums, and see what sort of response you get. I dont think it will be as kind and supportive as your own trans friends are.

slowpoke5001 · 05/06/2022 10:47

nannoggshere · 05/06/2022 10:34

Slowpoke: i don't believe you have once mentioned any concern for your alleged girlfriend and her rights to obtain HRT without being impeded when her time comes. You have been wholly selfish in your quest to make this age and sex-based issue all about you and you have shamelessly attempted to garner sympathy for youself whilst changing usernames to type offensive comments to us here. You know that the admins can tell its you right? You should be ashamed for the way you have behaved, we are not angry with you slowpoke, we are disappointed that you followed the predictable behaviour and inserted yourself into women's space yet again with your slowpoking. You have also mentioned that mumsnet seems worse than incel forums, well how would you know that young man? Because you are the unwanted interloper, kindly remove yourself from this women's space that doesn't concern you.

In the meantime women are suffering from erratic/loss of supply off oestrogen products that are being given to a sex class that doesn't need them www.mumsnet.com/talk/menopause

What are you on about. changing usernames to type offensive comments to us he're. That seems like an awful lot of effort just to prove a point.

You have also mentioned that mumsnet seems worse than incel forums, well how would you know that young man?
Because I read Men Who Hate Women, it's a good book written by a Laura Bates. Given by your response i'm assuming you will like it as i'm only a "Man" so my opinion is irrelevant on Mums Net. Such irony.

i don't believe you have once mentioned any concern for your alleged girlfriend and her rights to obtain HRT without being impeded when her time comes
My Girlfriend isn't Trans for a start. Nothing I say here will allow my friend to obtain HRT so you have a point, I shouldn't continue to post here, it really is pointless and i'm not going to change your mind. The claim that i'm being selfish though is really just dumb

SpindleForTheWorld · 05/06/2022 10:48

Mate, I've got enough on campaigning to preserve toilets for people with disabilities and female-only toilets, now that they're under an onslaught from the very lazy of thinking and TRAs.

You crack on with your own campaign for third spaces. I'll support it - but I'm not bloody doing it for you. I'm not your mum. Grow up and DO something yourself for once.