Transwomen are really upset by HRT shortages

[Smileandactlikeitsfine]

It makes their moods all over the place.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/hrt-crisis-impact-on-trans-community_uk_627bbc19e4b009a811cc19f3/

I mean us perimenopausal women take hrt for few other essential functions as well, but just as long as your moods are even mate.

I expect that because i'm talking to a someone who is fundamentally against calling a Trans Women a Women so how could you ever expect to understand that person if you call them something they consider derogitory

There’s a trope in cinema about the magical, spiritual qualities of a black character who supports, saves and enlightens the white protagonist.

thia is all starting to feel like this with Poke’s Magical Trans Friend.

and you don't see the irony in what you just said

Just coming back to a point slowpoke made earlier about suicide. I think some previous posters have muddled the false suicide statistics claimed for children pretransition (suicide is very rare in this group) with post transition. slowpoke rightly points out that transitioning increases suicide risk several-fold. I think his anecdote about a friend who was unable to accept the reality that they would never be a woman shows the problem - they have never had their underlying mental health problems dealt with and are unable to accept reality. It used to be that if had gender dysphoria and we're seeking to transition then before you did so the doctors had to be clear that you understood that you were not changing sex and it was impossible to do so. 'Affirmative treatment' simply ignores the underlying mental health condition by delaying acceptance of reality. No wonder they become suicidal, it is shockingly poor treatment.

No, just a really great friend. They do exist

@slowpoke5001 , you do understand that some of us DO have trans children, and trans friends, don't you? You're not the only person in the world to ever make friends with a trans person.

Along with most posters here, I don't hate trans people. If someone clearly male at my workplace introduces themselves as Josephine, thats fine, and I will accept them as such. If Josephine chooses to use the women's toilets, I actually don't give a shit, as long as they use it like every woman does. But if Josephine wants to join the women's netball team, or the rugby team, thats not on. If, God forbid, Josephine is sent to prison, there is no question of them going to a female prison. They must go to a men's prison.

This is not hate, this recognition of sex difference.

We'll yes of course. I'm trying to proove my point and no one else so far has helped apart from @Lovelyricepudding so it's basically myself against the entirety of MumsNet which is a shame.

I agree with you pretty much entirely. Slightly differing opinions on prison sentencing but I understand where you are coming from.
I'm responding to the people here that would be furious if Josephine went into the women's toilets.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/menopause

HRT shortage for women.
That's what this thread is about.

The fundamental thing I cannot understand though is why someone wouldn't offer the small courtesy of using the correct pronouns for a Trans Person. it's such an easy thing to do. Even if you're dead set in your mind that they are a Man and not a Women it's a small courtesy that could mean the world to them.

@slowpoke5001 "I mean I can tell you myself that I was apprehensive towards dating a Trans Person up until a couple of years back."

You are 23. When I was 23 (halfway a lifetime ago) I was very busy being kind, throwing off the shackles of my upbringing, experimenting with what I really was, etc. As I got older, I kept the bits I liked from that time (atheist humanism, socialism, feminism, intellectual curiosity) and got rid of the ones I found weren't helping me (excessive kindness at my own expense).

I suspect that the age make-up of this board is more myself generation than yours. We've been through all this, and we have reasons for how we think and feel. Or very own lived experience, in fact.

You called us patronising - do you not think it's patronising, in a very patriarchal way, for a very young man to think he has the right to educate a bunch of (I suspect mostly) middle-aged women about womaning better and how to be (what you - completely ahistorically - think is) a better feminist? Especially as you seem to be basing all of your thinking on one friend's experiences - do you seriously think we haven't met some people too?

By not using the correct pronouns you are saying they shouldn't exist as they are now. Even if you don't think it makes a big difference it does to them and it ultimately boils down to respect for other people

Well it was

too many threads on here get completely off track which is a great shame

So essentially, your argument is, be kind in social situations. Fine. We should all be kind to each other. But how does kindness of using preferred pronouns scale up into doling out scarce HRT to male-bodied people who don't really need it?

Hmmm.

Almost like women aren't allowed to talk about female experiences. Not without including males in it, anyway.

Revealing, innit?

It is indeed beloved

Forgot to add, if everyone is "being kind", would it actually hurt trans women to not take these hormones for a while out of kindness to their sisters who really need them? Surely kindness and consideration should work both ways.

Quite!

Back on topic from the me-rail. Apparently Oestrogel supplies should be starting to come back to normal this month according to the pharmacy minister pharmaceutical-journal.com/article/feature/hormone-replacement-therapy-shortages-will-the-governments-new-approach-work we shall see.

I live in hope, Uutuni.

A lot of us have spent many, many years doing just this. Then Stonewall etc decided that that was not enough, and that what was really required was the total erasure of women's spaces and women's boundaries. They used our initial "kindness" as the thin end of the wedge to prise open our hard-won places of safety. We reacted to that, to the Stonewallification of every day life and many public bodies, to the erasure of women as a sex class.

Re toilets- as said above, I PERSONALLY am not that bothered, providing, as said above, tw use those spaces in the same way I do - in, straight to a cubicle, do your stuff, GET FULLY DRESSED AGAIN, get out of cubicle, wash hands, leave. However, I will stand up for the rights of my sisters who ARE bothered. You are keen on us putting ourselves into trans women's shoes. Try these two experiments:

1. you are an Orthodox Jewish woman or a Muslim woman, and you have been taught, and firmly believe, that you can not undress even partially while in a room with a man. There is someone in your toilet who you firmly believe is a man. Their stature, build, stance, is masculine. They're are wearing a dress and a LOT more make-up than most women would. When they speak, their voice is deep. Do you stay in the toilets or do you leave? (You maybe also consider googling "urinary leash" and how early department stores were such a big liberation to women).
2. you are a woman who has been repeatedly sexually harassed, maybe abused, maybe raped, by men. You are alone in a toilet when someone comes in who has the build, stature and stance of your attacker. Even the smell. And the voice. How do you feel?

You called us patronising - do you not think it's patronising, in a very patriarchal way, for a very young man to think he has the right to educate a bunch of (I suspect mostly) middle-aged women about womaning better and how to be (what you - completely ahistorically - think is) a better feminist? Especially as you seem to be basing all of your thinking on one friend's experiences - do you seriously think we haven't met some people too?

I'm basing it on my friends experience, my own experience as a non binary person and specifically the way I dress and how people view me, experiences of other Trans people on the internet such as Contrapoints and direct statistics which for the majority of the time i've been including in my posts, particularly the earlier ones.

Just give me a scenario where i can continue this conversation without it being labelled as patronising and I will.
I don't believe that age necessarily correlates to understanding of a certain subject matter. In-fact it can be detriment as ideas become cemented and rarely change.
I don't understand for the same reason why people prefer older candidate politicians assuming they will have a better grasp on how to do there job.

Granted i'm not a Women so I can understand the frustration. I would invite my Trans Friend to join the discussion but I doubt they would want to be honest especially as they are currently suffering with there mental health because of a HRT shortage.

I've heard from one person who has a Trans Kid but they mentioned that they didn't support there kid taking hormones and yourself. Most have been in direct opposition to calling a Trans Women a Women so I highly doubt they have any Trans friends.

The fundamental thing I cannot understand though is why someone wouldn't offer the small courtesy of using the correct pronouns for a Trans Person.

I think most gender critical people would, in person, to an individual trans person who was not causing offence. I certainly would, and have.

I expect that because i'm talking to a someone who is fundamentally against calling a Trans Women a Women so how could you ever expect to understand that person if you call them something they consider derogitory

You're moving the goalposts now. However much I "understand" them, it's not going to change my sexuality, is it?

www.mumsnet.com/talk/menopause

Women. HRT for menopausal women.

Desperately ill, confused, distressed women.

Ignored women.

The first issue isn't specific to just Trans Women though, it's also a direct issue with Unisex toilets.
You do make a good point though. I don't think a Trans Women talking into a Male bathroom and facing discrimination is any better, neither are ideal.

The 2nd issue is lumping Trans Women with Cisgendered Men. Men created this fear and Trans Women get the blame. Consider that for Trans Women taking anti androgens their level of Testosterone is significantly reduced. Testosterone has a massive effect on libido.
The issue is it's difficult at the moment to distinguish real Trans Women from Male predators dressed as Women. If there is a need to exclude Trans Women from male Bathrooms then fair enough but allow Trans Women to use single occupancy disabled toilets or there own restrooms to circumvent it but don't force them into a dangerous space where they are more at risk of assault, IE a male bathroom.

Thank you for replying by the way, I feel like I can have a real conversation about this with you instead of just saying the same thing over and over again

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42221629