Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 9

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Allison Bailey - claimant

Witnesses for the claimant:

Nic Williams - Fair Play for Women
A Woman's Place
FiLiA
Kate Harris - LGB Alliance

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC
Kirrin Medcalfe - head of trans inclusion Stonewall
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC and in charge of writing report on AB/complaints
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC

Current Witness - Charlie Tennant - Clerk at GCC

To come

Luke Harvey - Clerk at GCC
Louise Hooper - Clerk at GCC
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge

Isn’t part of the reason for the threads to have some social interaction as well? Somewhere to react quickly. If not, then that is cool, I will stick to other social media for that interaction.

There is no possibility in my mind, with comments like ‘dirty transphobic laundry’, Renton’s awe-inspiring misogyny on display yesterday, Stephen Lue’s undercover activist persona, that any straightforward declaration of belief on AB’s part or the part of any other female barrister would have resulted in roughly the same outcome.

That’s a hostile environment.

And Louise Hooper's emphatic discussion of the harm that views like ABs can do even though "Allison would think she is not transphobic, her views stray into transphobia, yes" (not a direct quote) sort of comments.

I think those last couple of witnesses with their hard stares and emphatic declarations, proved far more than much that has gone before, that GC views are absolutely not permitted.

Thank you. Tabby to the rescue

Have your fingers recovered from all the astonishingly fast typing you did for Mayas hearing?

Yes, thank you! The only reason I haven’t transcribed this one is the ruling.

This you? @tabbycatstripy 😉

That would be a noble and possibly invaluable contribution tabbycatstripy.

Good.

Yes it is hard to know how much you can say.

Isn’t part of the reason for the threads to have some social interaction as well? Somewhere to react quickly. If not, then that is cool, I will stick to other social media for that interaction.
You can just paste the relevant bit from Tribunal Tweets above your reaction. If it was worth reacting to, presumably they'll have recorded it.

Even if you're watching video live, presumably the tweets can't be far behind?

I would imagine a very small proportion of people reading these threads are watching video. (I'm not).

These threads are dual purpose as I see them. They are a place for those of us watching live to react and say, wow, did we really just hear that? And go Ben etc. it's a social way to watch the same event live.

It's also a place to catch up with what's gone on.

If you want a verbatim ish account then Tribunal Tweets is the place to get it, not here. It's really hard to type fast enough without missing the next bit. It's a skill I certainly don't have.

I tend to capture key quotes or key questions as best as I can. Some of the drama and comedy I tend to capture as these are the bits that stand out for the film 😉

I don't think we should lose the live reaction part of this thread. None of us has an obligation to live report it and actually - serious point - none of us has permission to do it. Tribunal Tweets had to get permission from the judge to do it which needed all the lawyers to agree and wasn't guaranteed.

Yes, I think I’ll have to give the effect of what she says. That’s not ‘recording’ the tribunal, is it? I’ll read the ruling as well and if I don’t think I can get away with it I won’t.

I'm seriously not going to copy and paste TT to my comments. I don't have time for that!! I'm watching while working from home. None of us are journalists. If you really want to watch it then take annual leave and do it. Don't make those of us who are watching it feel bad about that.

It is clear that he thinks GC beliefs are primarily to harm trans people and he cannot compute that is about women's safety and dignity.

But it's not just about safety and dignity. It's about TRUTH, Biological reality. And children, their safety and also their education - they need to be taught accurate biological truth!
Children in schools are being taught that doctors "guess your gender at birth"!

twitter.com/mrsdall22824246/status/1527265382528077824?s=21

"If it was worth reacting to, presumably they'll have recorded it."

Quite often TT comes out after the moment has passed.
Plus I get the impression a lot of the comments are about asides, pauses etc which aren't tweeted.

However, although it would be lovely for those of us not watching to have more quotes, I am enjoying the 'social interaction' of these threads even without them. It isn't really the responsibility of the watchers to tell us everything when we can't watch ourselves.

Yes. This.

Yes.

I have scheduled my work tasks around the sessions so I can listen while doing tasks requiring less focus. I don’t have twitter running as well.

Sorry, I’m guilty of this too. In my defence it’s not always easy to post full questions and reactions as I’m also attempting to work at the same time and the questioning moves so fast.

Is the ruling available anywhere while the tribunal isn’t sitting?

I think the other good thing about the posts here is that we have so many people with different experiences and history. So when watching we might pick up on something we can pass comment on from a place of knowledge. So definitely worth trying to keep up when work doesn't prevent us!

Renton is a rather frightening man.

I don't know, probably not.

Someone sent me a very sweet PM but I don’t reply to PMs because of the MN doxxing history.

To be clear to any informants reading the thread, I don’t intend to “record” the tribunal without checking the ruling to see whether it would be in contempt of court. Obviously if it breaches the ruling I won’t do it.

But it’s a shame for open justice that we have to get permission to record (in writing, not using technology) what someone says in a British courtroom.

It's a real shame that we can't edit posts as it would be a lot easier to go back and put context.

It is very hard to just watch and then type a reaction, let alone C&P tribunal tweets too.

Also a lot of the question and answers are quite long. The GC witness's especially as they go off on a tangent of their own making, trying to direct proceedings.

@appleandrhubarb I agree with you. The hairs on my neck stood up as soon as he spoke.

Hairs on my neck stood up as well. BC looked taken aback, to put it politely.

The good old Gift of Fear.