Amber Heard&Johnny Depp trial

[Miscfeminista]

I wanted to hear more thoughts from women who actually don't accuse Amber for being"a faker". I don't want to tip toe around it or argue with people over same thing over and over while they pretend they are unbiased when in fact they just support Depp.

A lot has already been said and I know you need to have diverse opinions for better conversation etc but on the other thread I am, I'm so tired of people victim blaming and chewing over stuff with little substance so I wanted to make a separate one where we can follow the rest of the trial and outcome with our comments and observations(without constantly arguing about feminist basics).

My last thought was that AH witnesses have been consistent so far and have been wondering if they pulled away from her because they didn't want the drama surrounding it(instead of actually finding her guilty, like Depp fans are suggesting).

I'm following it over Sky over ones with commentary(every day around 1-2 afternoon UK time, 9 in the morning US time I believe..trial ends next week, think someone said 27th)

All observations welcome. What stood out to you so far?

I assume you are referring to JDs proven lies with the phone?

People choose their sides fairly early often from the outset and pick and choose what to believe. What reinforces their view is good what doesn't is ignored. Its the way of the world. With the trial I sat on you could have saved a lot of time simply by having the vote on the first day as during the first recess the chairwoman came out with 'he obviously did it - he looks the type', many agreed. What went on from there was basically a waste of time. I think this is true of this trial as well everyone will view it based on their own prejudices. The scruffy looking drunk versus the pretty young woman. The JD supporters versus the 'woman are always the victims' team.

Could it be possible that both of them are fucking terrible?

Yes. But only one of them is choosing to drag the whole debacle through the courts repeatedly

I just watched the Morgan Tremaine video. Another underwhelming witness. The video of Johnny smashing cabinet's came in as an anonymous tip

I don't think anything yesterday did Depp any huge favours. Lots has been said to imply the photos were fake and she leaked to the press, but no actual proof

Those texts were horrific, I wonder where they came from

And the other is prolonging it by telling a load of lies.

Hmm. Yesterday revealed a lot of what Depp says to be lies.
Arguing HIS OWN evidence submissions had been tampered with to explain how he talks about women? Denying there was a phone in Melbourne in direct contradiction to his UK testimony? Saying his finger was injured by a bottle thrown by Heard when the evidence is that's not correct?

The double standards in the pro- Depp team are breath taking.

It also amazes me how much of what's been said on social media turns out to be absolute unsubstantiated bullshit. All the stuff about the photos of Amber's face being photoshopped- no evidence for that on the files and she has eye witnesses who testified they saw the bruises.

All the stuff about "he's never done this before" and his ex girlfriend and friends turn up to testify he's jealous and controlling

Anyway, respect to Amber's team as even though it wasn't allowed in the main trial, they bought up Deuters name and the flight so the jury were prompted to read the texts where he says Johnny is sorry for kicking her.

I'm not pro-Depp. On this very thread, I think this thread, I've stood up for Amber. I think people are overly harsh about her and unfair. But I equally I don't get this blind attitude that she has done nothing wrong. She's told a load of lies, both here and in the UK court. If you want people to acknowledge his wrongdoings, surely it's not unreasonable to expect you to hold her accountable too?

The JD supporters versus the 'woman are always the victims' team

ive not looked at every thread

but on this one ive seen most people say that both are abusive, ive certainly not picked a ‘side’ and not everyone has

I say this so many times, but I'll say it again.

I'm sure she has done things wrong but both this trial and the UK one were brought by Depp and Depp has to prove he hasn't been abusive. And in my opinion he's failed to do that.

For example, his finger. He says she did it by throwing a bottle. She says he did it smashing a phone. Because the trial is about whether he is abusive, all we've heard is thar his version of events isn't supported by the medical evidence. I wouldn't even go as far as saying he lied as he's clearly off his face so often. I think he doesn't know what happened so made a version of events where she did it.

However all that's been demonstrated is his version is incorrect. It could still be she caused it, but in no way has that been proved. She might have caused the injury. Or she might not.

Innocent until proven guilty is important and so far I've seen nothing that definitively says she was abusive (but that isn't what's on trial so I wouldn't expect to).

I'm not a "blind amber heard supporter" but I am objective and drawing conclusions from what's been presented in court. Depp has been unable to back up his version of events, whereas Heard has been.

I acknowledge what the doctor said about his finger. He was about the only good expert witness she had. I also think he abused and he will lose.

Maybe in your head you think you're being even-handed, but you're not coming across that way. The jury can make their own conclusions. Depps side drew the connection between AHs video, her copywrite and the transference of copywrite.
Tremaine said they were told that AH was landing and they were told to take pictures of her bruise. This came from a verifiable source. She arrived as told and enabled a picture to be taken.
You might need dots to be joined but for most people we can draw our own conclusions. Tremaine certainly did nothing to dispel any idea that Heard was involved.

They cast doubt over the veracity of all her photos because they went through an editing suite. The expert showed the pictures of her arm with a bruise at 3 different sizes. So some photo editing happened. She lied in court about two pictures and said that they were taken at the same time but one had been taken with the vanity light on. But she was in the exact same position. You and I know that's impossible to stay in the same position after reaching out to switch on a light.

If this had be found about Depp photos and TMZ connections, you'd be all over it. But because it's Heard, you dismiss it as underwhelming and not proof and instead concentrate on a text that was written when he was obviously angry by how, she'd portrayed him, that he'd written to a friend and never meant for anyone else to see. I know on MN the big thing is that no one ever loses their temper or raises their voice and you should never speak to anyone about your husband, even less criticise them, but MN isn't real life. In real life people get angry and frustrated and scared and they say horrible things.

But I do understand it is unacceptable to you and I accept that. But to say everyone should concentrate on that and dismiss the other evidence of being proof of nothing, is an example of your (unconscious?) bias.

Actually I haven't even bought up the question about Depps photos. But yes, I would be "all over it" as you say, because this trial is about whether Depp can prove he wasn't abusive.

The reason the trial interests me is the quite extraordinary lengths people are going to around the trial, to "prove" Heard is a liar, at odds with what's being demonstrated in court.

The double standards are something else and it's rank misogyny.

I think humans behave badly under pressure, most people would not come out of it covered in glory if their worst arguments were recorded and played in public.

But fundamentally, has Depp proved she's an abusive liar who made up the allegations about him? Not at all.

Has her team shown evidence he hit her and verbally abused her? Yes.

Has her team shown evidence he has misogynistic and toxic attitudes to women and sex? Yes.

So it seems impossible to me he can win.

I hope she does win so that he has to stop the court actions. But I'm not confident she will as I think unfortunately pervasive sexist attitudes and myths about how abuse victims behave will make it very difficult for the jury to find in her favour.

Depps photo:
Prior to the lunch break, Depp had alleged that Heard hit him on the Orient Express. When asked how he got the injury shown in one photo by his legal team, of Depp and Heard in the Orient Express dining car with chefs from the train, he replied, "Ms. Heard hit me."

Heard's legal team showed another image of Depp taken in July 2015 before Heard and Depp began their train honeymoon on the Orient Express. In the image shown, Depp is holding a child and has what Heard's lawyers said looks like the "exact same mark under your left eye" as in the image on the Orient Express.

"That is the exact area, but a side light will cause that as well," Depp said. "The lens in front, the light on the side will cause that occipital bone, I believe, to appear sunken."

Heard's defense asked, "Just like lights on the side of the train car?"

"That was in fact in the dark," Depp said of the train image. "And I had people on either side of me, so I don't see how light was on either side there."

The expert showed the pictures of her arm with a bruise at 3 different sizes. So some photo editing happened
Just to be clear - the overall picture was 3 different sizes. The bruise remained proportional in each- e.g. there was no evidence the bruise had been emphasised or exaggerated.
The expert wouldn't testify that they had been intentionally altered.

So Depps team haven't proved Heard doctored the photos.

The other thread became a complete shitstorm of people comparing apples to oranges(as in saying men writing deeply misogynistic rapist things to each other is same as women venting after the most likely abusive ex made their life miserable, by writing vulgar stuff that may or may not include mentioning a word "dick". Apparantely it's all the same)and constanly excusing Depp for acting out because Amber done things they don't even bother to prove.

And no Letitia there's no such thing as being unbiased. At least if you know your biases from beginning you will be more open to question them. Other thread is perfect example of people being confused about what DV is even and have hard time imagining anything that didn't happen to them or fail to comprehend that even a woman that lies, hits and uses drugs or is generally not the perfect citizen, can be abused-that is called a bias.

I'm finding it amusing how Depp listens attentively to hand specialist dr almost as if he doesn't remember himself how it happened so is trying to figure out what caused it from drs

He wanted to say something about colouring alterations but was allowed. It's frustrating is much evidence they aren't allowed as it would clarify so much.

I think it proved it had gone through an editing process but he couldn't say this was done by AH. So they can't verify it as the original photo.

I'm not a "blind amber heard supporter" but I am objective and drawing conclusions from what's been presented in court. Depp has been unable to back up his version of events, whereas Heard has been.

She's only been able to back up the flight so far but I think we are about to hear from the air hostess. Then she's backed up the headbutt by the audiotape. Along with injuries seen by others.

But she hasn't been able to back up significant allegations.
The stairs incident. It has been found Witney was lying. Plus I find it hard to believe JD did all that with a hand in a cast.
Hicksville- the owner said the only damage to the trailer was one light.
Australia- the audiotape shows her apologising which we could assume is for the finger. I think we can see from that recording that AH certainly did not have the injuries claimed as her medical team do not mention any- except the scratches on her arm. She was seen with no injuries by multiple people the following day. They want to get her out of there instead. They wouldn't want to do that if she had the injuries AH claims.

Which other incidents has she proven?

The stairs incident. It has been found Witney was lying.
How is that? I feel like I've missed something, what I've seen is another witness (who wasn't there) saying cryptically "she needs to tell the truth"

Which other incidents has she proven?
I'd say the one where he came to her flat, with CCTV and photos of the damage, plus witnesses testifying he was angry and scary, that she was bruised the next day and photos of those bruises.

No.

It has absolutley not been proven that Whitney was lying. If you go back a page or 2 on this thread I've written"what might have transpired"but Jennifer's testimony is nothing more than hearsay and clearly someone's misinformerd judgement of situation(at least that seems that way to me).

I am really glad they called dr Hughes back to clarify, these forensic psychs agree

m.youtube.com/watch?v=Mxv1AP1VXqk&feature=youtu.be

Kate Moss ...?

I am really fucking triggered with people laughing at her accusing her of acting. People want women to not be themself ALL THE TIME. Every single lawyer that came there is performing femininity all the time, Elaine and judge seem to be doing a bit less so and maybe some others in different manner but generally speaking women are not allowed to be"themselves". It's extermely hypocritical to call her fake when we praise women as society when they are faking it aka performing femininity. Let her fucking be for crying out loud. Disgusting.

I'm glad it's almost done. Is there any point to tune in after this break?