Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 6

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets
Abbreviations:

AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

It's a completely different experience watching MS give testimony compared to an ego-driven witness who saw it has his place to argue with cross-examining counsel in order to win points.

The bundle doesn't show who was copied to emails. Seems unusual.

It's odd. You'd think this would be important.

This is so so true.
And so so common.

Its like these people have never seen emails printed out before.

How did BC not say 'Motorway', after saying '2468'??

I would have been bursting to!

😂

Maybe cross that his barrister has not got the case sewn up already?

I managed to get in just in time to be terminated for lunch. Gah.

Thanks for the continuing reports on here.
Judgments can take a long time to prepare (although in some courts the judge in simple cases will speak it - give it right away - county court sometimes so you are sitting there in person trying to write it all down because no one wants to pay for a transcript after in little cases). One I think took 365 days to come out but that was exceptional. Tribunal cases are not a precedent in law as said above, but still interesting.

Very few cases allow this kind of dial in as here for those wanting to watch so I suppose it has not really been needed in a court system which is extremely short of money to spend money on it, headphones etc, get used to that ,..as it is so very rare I suppose.

Going back to earlier. I wonder how the practice of writing 'keep free' on the diary will go down with the panel. That's a daft system if you don't mean 'do not pass me work for this day'. I wonder if any other barristers do it. But that was the system which had worked for her previously and on at least one occasion (I think) the clerks did pass some work for one of those days in 2019 so some clerks understood it. But still, it's ripe for confusion.

I wish the forstater judgement would hurry up.

"Keep free" would to me indicate I am doing something else that day eg going to a child's school event or seeing my family or I have something on that means I could not do a court hearing that day.

In my last job where I was a PA, if the directors diary said 'keep free' it meant they had work they needed to do and couldn't go to any meetings. Not that they weren't working.

A barristers diary is a negotiation.

"Keep free" can mean - I don't want to work because I want a break, OR I cannot work im away/ in hospital etc

The clerks will know because their job is to know their counsel and support them.

"Keep free" for a day off but an interesting case becomes available, your barrister is requested, you call and check in. I wouldn't ever have turned down work with speaking to counsel first when I know the clear day was not essential. Not if they were requested or if it would mean sending work to another chambers.

Everything needs context and clarification.

I too think 'keep free' seems an unusual way of wording things. However if that is how AB worked and her clerks understood it in the past, then it shouldn't be an issue.

I used to have to have a diary (different profession) and I would block off time with the message "do not book". The admin staff knew to come and ask me if there were circumstances where it was necessary to ignore this and in fact the slots were designed for this very reason. People have all sorts of ways of managing a diary. It'll be interesting to see what the clerks have to say.

Just caught up on TT and here and my impression is that Allison is I'm a stronger position after RM's testimony. There was nothing there that made me think there was a viable alternative explanation for her drop in income.

But I'll wager she won't be dropping in any apparently casual asides that cast chambers or particular individuals in a bad light.

Her demeanour so far makes her rather more likeable than some of the other GCC witnesses. But knowing the workings behind (a) how a witness comes across on the stand and (b) how to create a flavour of what was going on and the other characters in the story is literally part of her day job.

That's one of the things I find so interesting about this hearing. Lawyers with inside knowledge and experience of how it all works but having to pull the levers while out of their usual role. Some of them have struggled.

I use "keep free" in my Outlook calendar when I mean "I could really do with this time at my desk to do some actual work" and "NO MEETINGS" when I absolutely can't attend any meetings for any reason - appointment, urgent non-movable deadline, whatever. The member of the admin team who manages my and my senior colleagues' diaries understands this distinction (because we discussed it at the outset) and she knows the 'keep free's are flexible if I'm needed at a meeting and that's the only time the other attendees are available.

Did anybody similar to AB (experience etc.) show a comparable cliff face drop in income as AB did during that time?

I think it puts a hugely different spin on it when it's their own liability at stake compared to an accused employee of an entity who is not so financially invested in the outcome. But the tribunal must be aware of the different dynamics at play in various setups.

Are we on the lunch break?

Starts again at 2pm

In my last 'big cheese' job my PA knew that 'keep free' meant I was trying to catch up on paperwork but could be available for important stuff if it came up but not more paperwork-generating routine matters. As in, 'no please don't sign me up the chair the inaugural meeting of the yogurt pot three-step cleansing action group'.

Meanwhile, 'away' meant I was completely unavailable. As in, 'imagine I'm away communing with the puffins on Rockall'.

It was just a shorthand and I absolutely agree that context and shared understanding is essential.

Thanks! I had to duck out for a min.