Apparently female rape survivors 'need' mixed sex groups

[IamSarah]

Honestly. This is what my local rape crisis centre wrote in a letter to the EHRC.

Apparently women who have been raped need to welcome trans women into the rape crisis groups as they provide amazing value and are 'needed'.

Of course they haven't actually asked female survivors. None of it is trauma informed. I've no idea what the motivation is but its dodgy as hell.

survivorsnetwork.org.uk/our-letter-to-the-equalities-and-human-rights-commission/

twitter.com/ShonaghDillon/status/1515250031498080269?cxt=HHwWmsC9lYT4n4cqAAAA

Shonagh Dillon has some good tweets.

72 signatures. 11 are from academics.

Out of the 61 remaining signatures, 61% of them are from only 2 organisations.
In total only 9 organisations represented.

'To suggest that the value in women-only spaces lies solely or primarily in the exclusion of men significantly undervalues the inception, the purpose and the continuation of women-only spaces'

Trans women are welcome in these spaces, they add amazing value to these spaces and we need them in these spaces.

Do they mean to imply that if no local transwomen attend, because they haven't experienced sexual violence, the female clients will receive inferior provision?

So they're saying that this centre requires transwomen to experience sexual violence, in order to provide an optimum level of support to female clients?

To paraphrase the full letter, surely "this is framing the support needs of [cis] women as more important than the need
of trans people not to experience sexual violence"?

If transwomen are raped (and God knows, I would never wish that on anyone), surely they would actually feel more supported in a mens rape survivors group. If someone has forced themselves onto you in an unwanted way, why would you want to go and force yourself onto other people in an unwanted way?

they add amazing value to these spaces

I just can't get over that; it's such an odd and inappropriate thing to write.

It's surely to fuck not about whether someone's presence 'adds value' - it's supposed to be supporting survivors, fgs. Not providing a glittery, super special experience for anyone. To be frank, if I was a transwoman I'd be affronted at that. As if I was some kind of exotic accessory that's wheeled in to liven the place up, rather than a service user in need of support.

'Before we peppered the space with more exciting people, these rape survivor counselling sessions were just a bit meh'

@DomesticatedZombie

'To suggest that the value in women-only spaces lies solely or primarily in the exclusion of men significantly undervalues the inception, the purpose and the continuation of women-only spaces'

Either I am very thick, or the writer of that thinks we are very thick, or is, in fact, very thick.

The choices are male-only space, mixed-sex space, and female-only space.

If special things for women happen in female-only spaces, that don't happen in mixed-sex spaces, then what would the crucial factor be?

Are they suggesting that we've all been using mixed-sex groups in the wrong way?

@JellySaurus

Could someone please explain to me what value the presence of penis-havers will add to women who have been raped?

We lack imagination which is typical of us.

Ayesha Hazarika, formerly of the Fawcett Society, would definitely advocate for the added value.

“I’m part of a wonderful Facebook group of older women celebrating confidence in our “hot girl years”, AKA the menopause. Trans women are not only welcome, they are cherished — we have all learned from their stories and world class ability to accessorise.”

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4272328-Why-I-am-not-applying-for-the-Fawcett-Society-CEO-job-Maya-Forstater?pg=3

Interestingly, other members of the FB group claimed there were no such cherished members with "world class ability to accessorise" so I wonder if the Survivors Network's assertion has similar strong foundations.

In my head I just linked the letter with the thread about Lorelei's article on the fantasies of some trans people, now I feel faintly nauseous.

The women who fawn over these men are pathetic.

not only welcome, they are cherished

Cherished'? Seriously? Are they too fucking stupid to wonder why men want to be 'included' in a group for menopausal women? Men who cannot ever go through the fucking menopause!

So a rape crisis centre that has men's, trans and women's groups, meaning a man with a gender identity has a choice of all three groups whilst the woman who just needs one safe, single sex space, has it taken away because the man wants validation.

Man 3, woman 0. But he's the most vulnerable and oppressed right?

@JellySaurus

Could someone please explain to me what value the presence of penis-havers will add to women who have been raped?

No value

Unless you are a fucking liar

These people are appalling and not fit to work with women who have been raped/experienced male violence. They have betrayed women. Shame on them - they make me sick.

Wtf have I just read?
I’m so sorry these awful people are in charge of such a service.

‘To suggest that the value in women-only spaces lies solely or primarily in the exclusion of men significantly undervalues the inception, the purpose and the continuation of women-only spaces'

It doesn’t. The value of female-only spaces (as female-only spaces) lies precisely in the ability to exclude males.

A rape crisis support group can be mixed sex and then it will have all the usual value of a rape crisis support group. A female-only rape crisis support group has the additional value of excluding male people for the benefit of the female service users.

@PonyPatter44

If transwomen are raped (and God knows, I would never wish that on anyone), surely they would actually feel more supported in a mens rape survivors group. If someone has forced themselves onto you in an unwanted way, why would you want to go and force yourself onto other people in an unwanted way?

The centre runs a dedicated support group for trans survivors. Obviously 'cis' women cannot attend as it would make the trans survivors feel unsafe.

That letter is appalling. Not just stupid and tone deaf, but literally speaking. They are denying well known and publicised examples of women being traumatised by men in women only spaces. What sort of women are they that they can prioritise men over women like that? They should not be in those services at all: this is simple proof of their unsuitability.

IAmSarah that is utterly ridiculous. How would they know, though, if you were a woman and went to the TW group?

Also what the hell is happening with the crime situation in that area if there are so many TW being raped that they need two support groups?

Ffs! How fucking dare they? Why the fuck do they think that the women who, through their own blood, sweat and tears, set these services up? I am absolutely furious, just, how fucking dare they? I honestly feel quite sick. Sarah, the sooner you get your crowndfunder up and running, the better. Take. My. Money!

Oh dear god. When does it stop. Let's have the possibility of a non genuine transwoman (man) insinuate himself into groups of vulnerable women.

I really don't have an issue with men who are genuinely confused about their identity and feel being a woman will help, but let's just be a bit more sceptical because there are hundreds of opportunistic perverts waiting to invade women's spaces and women's safe areas.

@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus what value could trans women add to a menopause group?. Baffled.

Interesting that out of the 70 signatures 20 come from Rape Crisis Tyneside & Northumberland. I wonder who's been "educating" them. I would imagine if you work in this sector and somebody is pushing this kind of letter, you might feel pressurised to sign it if you felt all your colleagues took this line.

I just don't get it. Even with a GRC a transman can't inherit a male title or join the Masons. Men can have their men only swimming ponds policed by the, er, police. Male farmers can have their men-only groups. Yet women can't even have a women only rape support group? Women are actually fighting to close down women only groups because having penis in the room "adds value" What about the value added to the women there? How much more clearly could it be spelt out that women don't count?

One wonders what on earth they'd do if their current mixed sex women's group had only females in it. Presumably wait until some poor TW had been raped so they could enrich everyone else's experience? This is absolute insanity.

What this proves is that once any organisation gets into the grip of this lobby or worse is staffed by activists from it, it should not be permitted to provide services for females. I'm not sure they should be providing services for TW either since they are busily regarding them apparently as tools to improve groups or pets to 'cherish', we're talking about people needing rape crisis support not to provide nice feelz and experiences for those working there.

They should lose the contract, they're quite clearly all about the T politics and no longer competent to do the basic job they were there for. They're quite clear they cannot and do not want to provide female services unless male people are present, their interests in females (and apparently in rape support and trauma) are very secondary to their real focus.

I can’t put into words how much I despise the women who do this. They’re thick as pigshit, vacuous, virtue-signalling imbeciles, and I find them utterly abhorrent. Traitors and idiots.

This is the ultimate insult. Fuck off all of your dick-pandering halfwits 🤬

I'd also add that in their very interesting and novel opinion, female rape survivors who cannot join them in the idea that they need male people in the room traumatising them because it's good for them, (regardless of the female needs or reasons for this) should just be deprived of any support at all.

Not qualified to run a bloody lemonade stand, never mind hold an LA contract.