Grace Lavery on Woman’s Hour Today (7 April)

[CaveMum]

Why on earth I do not know, but the “delightful” Grace Lavery is on Woman’s Hour today.

This Grace Lavery

I've not listened yet - but this thread has had me in stitches 🤣🤣🤣🤣

My first ever thread in "Trending Now" - I'm very proud!

@DomesticatedZombie

I'm off out but will transcribe later. I only wish there was a way to add accent and intonation to typed words, though, because it really adds to the experience.

Completely off-topic but, yes—somewhat akin to the experience of this (happens around 2:50 for anyone who doesn't want to listen to the first part of Moonlight Sonata).

Just listening to this now... I highly doubt anyone has ever praised GL for being caring, generous and thoughtful.

@Clymene

Women who are invested in patriarchy don't believe the class women can include people with penises.

Oh really Grace?

Wonderful!

Because it’s not like “women with penises” literally are the patriarchy.

That was classic. Talk about an own goal.

Oh missed it dam work.

But this thread 🤣🤣🤣 awesome work

I caught the end of this - just incomprehensible bollocks!!??

I think GL had a few lines of something before coming the interview. No one talks that fast without ‘support’ do they?

It's a shame that so many people on Twitter are having a go at Emma for having Grace on. We absolutely need to give people like Grace a platform to speak. People need to hear the intellectual noodle bollocks for themselves.

Incomprehensible. Unevidenced. Contradictory. Verbose.

And all undone by this question:

"If you don't want a world where borders are policed, why are you trying to police women?"

@WinterTrees

'Can a women have a penis is a bizarre and dangerous question' says our Gracey.

I think most people could agree with that, but not quite in the way Grace thinks.

20 years ago it would have been a bizarre question because everyone knew the same answer.

Male privilege is writing an entire book about your dick, openly saying that you are a pervert and still having the academic world defend you if anybody dares to question your claim that you're a woman.

I so like this take in the twitter stream

I’ve never rated EB but the interview didn’t go as badly as I thought it might!

@millytint44

Woman's hour doesn't exactly have a great track record. I stopped listening when they had the audacity to use phrases like pregnant people / people who have periods. FFS if you can't say "women and girls" on woman's hour

That must have been a guest saying that, surely? Can you remember which presenter was on that day?

I note GL employed a particularly condescending tone for the simple minded matrons who comprise the WH listenership.
Or perhaps GL always talks like that. That would be unfortunate

What does GL mean that women's rights mustn't be sex based? What else could they be?

I wasn't going to listen because I thought it was someone like that bloke who runs pink news waffling on. Then I saw this thread and tuned back in.

So much of what GL said was wrong, and its depressing that some academics and (as a pp put it) midwit students believe it. But the main thing I want to say is that I'm a gc feminists (roughly) and I have no desire to protest grace lavery, or to prevent her speaking. I definitely don't want to bang on the windows of the room to prevent other people hearing her. Her position is the more extreme and detached from reality of the theoretical positions than underpin the trans rights movement. The more people hear it the better. I hope she goes on newsnight and question time, start the week, lbc, talk radio, and I hope she describes everything that she believes in full. And the nation's bored and baffled listeners will form their own opinions.

Is there an issue in the USA with surgeons no longer making sure that dysphoric patients understand that it's not possible to change sex?

It used to be the case - and I believe still is in the UK - that patients would ONLY be approved for "reassignment" surgery if the surgeon was satisfied that the patient did understand and could independently articulate that they would NOT/could NOT change sex. Scott Newgent has also talked about genuinely being under the impression that "sex reassignment surgery" could literally result in a sex change. Which seems to possibly border on medical malpractice.

It seems to go back several years at least. Perhaps something for the BBC to investigate if they really want to wade in - they did some good work exposing widespread anti-black racism in medicine in the USA when no local "journalists" would touch the topic.

What on earth have I just listened to?! I’m baffled as to why this person was given air time. Just when I thought this whole thing couldn’t get any crazier…

Was in a meeting but cannot wait to listen to this one. Does anyone know when, or how, I can watch it on catchup? Clicked the link above but was a live one. Searched the website but only had episodes up to yesterday.

@ResisterRex

Incomprehensible. Unevidenced. Contradictory. Verbose.

And all undone by this question:

"If you don't want a world where borders are policed, why are you trying to police women?"

Quite.

'A Ballaching Wa*k of Sniggering Dreariness'.

Tried to listen and follow the thread at the same time. This was a mistake as it was very hard to understand GL's argument for sex-based rights being a bad thing for women. Was all quite hard to follow and find an actual point. Is the 'word salad' approach to discussing sex and gender issues a deliberate ploy so those who aren't academics in the area assume they're not educated enough to understand and defer to the presumed expertise? Or does this person just talk a load of shite? Will have to force myself to listen again.

Is the strategy to talk so fast that nobody can hear what Grace is saying? You are just left with a numb "wait ... what ,,, " Maybe the plan is to make us think "I will have to buy the book so I can find out what this person actually said, in amongst all that word salad". Hell will freeze over first, though.

All I got from that was that patriarchy penis patriarchy penis. Women are womenning wrong. And then "I must be controversial" so threw in regicide too.