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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Grace Lavery on Woman’s Hour Today (7 April)

570 replies

CaveMum · 07/04/2022 08:17

Why on earth I do not know, but the “delightful” Grace Lavery is on Woman’s Hour today.

This Grace Lavery

Grace Lavery on Woman’s Hour Today (7 April)
OP posts:
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Plasmodesmata · 07/04/2022 16:21

I can guess why there were deletions. This thread for some reason has been appearing in "Trending Now" all day. Usually threads from this board don't, even if they are busy.
This means that there have been people commenting who don't usually frequent this board and don't know The Rules.

AdamRyan · 07/04/2022 16:21

I just googled Daniel Lavery's previous name and its made me sad.
In 2014 they were in a relationship with a woman and setting up sites for women together.
Met Grace in that persons previous incarnation in 2016 and they both transitioned.
Also appears to be a history of abuse in Daniels background, and the photos above.
It's made me very uncomfortable

www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/dear-prudence-how-did-slates-advice-columnist-find-himself-here/2020/02/19/827a4d64-438b-11ea-b5fc-eefa848cde99_story.html

WarriorN · 07/04/2022 16:23

Not read the full thread but just started listening; to be honest being on the radio and talking about your penis isn't exactly going to help the cause.

So I suspect that by being "impartial" EB and the BBC are proving women's points...

Aka; own goal of penile proportions!

Absurdle · 07/04/2022 16:26

if you don’t wear make-up when you are doing an interview with Woman’s Hour you don’t wear make-up very often

Is Grace aware it's a radio programme? And has anyone read Grace's "scholarship" about learning to apply eyeliner? I kind of want to read it, but not enough to actually read it.

I'm in the camp of having thoroughly enjoyed that interview. A mirthmaking twerp of staggering me-ness.

CCCollins · 07/04/2022 16:28

It was awful

WarriorN · 07/04/2022 16:32

I hope I'm not the only one thinking this is a work of genius on EB and WH's part?!

Not through it all yet...

Helleofabore · 07/04/2022 16:34

@Artichokeleaves

Word salad -
  • I don't really know what I'm talking about
  • I am a poor communicator
  • I have no concept of accessibility
  • I am trying to fog all this in pseudo intellectual waffle

That's the generous version.

I thought this was a glorious summation though.
orangejuggling · 07/04/2022 16:39

That was such a weird interview. I thought the first half was credible if a bit flimsy but then we got to something about the patriarchy not existing in feminism before Caitlyn Jenner ?? (That can't have been the point surely? it was very hard to follow).

I am entranced to know what the audience response to the bit about the Queen and the French Revolution will be.

It was such a trivial, strange conversation, especially after the deeply affecting piece that was on just before, where a mother described the loss of her baby.

WarriorN · 07/04/2022 16:42

I do think it was insulting to have it next to the earlier piece.

At the same time it emphasised the naval and penile gazing of this individual and "subset" of humans.

CompleteGinasaur · 07/04/2022 16:43

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

CaveMum · 07/04/2022 16:44

What’s with the deleted posts?!

OP posts:
DomesticatedZombie · 07/04/2022 16:46

I just listened to the section of the mother who lost her baby Harriet. Devastating. Absolutely devastating to hear her talk.

For that reason, I'm glad Emma avoided mention of that staggeringly crass metaphor in the book where Grace compares their flaccid penis to a miscarriage. It would have been far too much given the context.

LittleSnakes · 07/04/2022 16:52

Mine got deleted for saying the wrong pronoun. But only just got notification even. So maybe that’s the same with the others?

LittleSnakes · 07/04/2022 16:53

Oh no, actually two of mine got deleted. One from while I was listening live which was a fair while ago now.

FromOurHatsToOurFeet · 07/04/2022 16:54

DomesticatedZombie I've listened to today's WH up until then and then couldn't continue.

nepeta · 07/04/2022 16:56

@MsTSwift

Slightly nervous to get into my hot tub now in case I emerge as a man.

Never heard such a load nonsensical drivel in my life. Poor Emma having to sit through it. Phd in utter self absorption more like.

LOL!

Yes, the self-absorption is something to behold here and probably also in the case of Lia Thomas and others like that. It's all about memememememe.

The drivel is interesting, though. Lavery says that 'women' can be a biological category or a political category, and the former supports patriarchy and the other does not.

That's word salad where the ingredients are correct but stirred into a mess:

It's true that the so-called patriarchy sees women as a biological category, a sexual and reproductive resource, and wishes to control that resource by denying the group 'women' political power.

As a response to that, many individuals in that biological group 'women' have fought to get political power and used it by creating political groups, and those groups have fought against the subjugation of women as a biological group and also against general misogyny. Those groups are still doing this.

But they are doing it FOR the group of biological women, BECAUSE it is on the grounds of biological sex that women are oppressed.

And that is the reason, Grace, why erasing the idea of sex-based rights is so dangerous. Sex-based wrongs are not disappearing in this world, and therefore sex-based rights are necessary.

DomesticatedZombie · 07/04/2022 16:58

Ah, if we're getting deletions for mispronouning, I'd like to point out that my phrase 'stop hogging the blunt man.' was not directed at any one person. It was meant as 'man' as in 'maaaaaaaaaaan' as in 'stick it to the man' and in a general cheech and chong type of sense, not directed at anyone, regardless of their ownership of a penis, staggering, or otherwise.

Hope that clears it up. Smile

BaronessBomburst · 07/04/2022 16:58

Can we say 'they' or will that get deleted too?
I don't mind using a neutral pronoun but calling someone with a penis 'her' or 'she' crosses a line for me and I won't do it.

Somanysocks · 07/04/2022 16:59

GL needs a jacket that does up at the back.

Awkwardy · 07/04/2022 17:00

Sales of hot tubs have just plummeted.

Melroses · 07/04/2022 17:00

Mine got deleted. I think that is my first proper deletion - I usually get deleted for quoting deleted posts. However I still don't know why it got deleted.

Helleofabore · 07/04/2022 17:01

I expect its true that the phrase 'sex based rights' didn't occur before 2015.

I did industrial relations at uni in the 90s. Full of mentions of 'sex based rights'. Directly to counter, negative sexist discrimination in as many forms as it was able to for the time. This is a falsehood that has been spread by TRAs.

DomesticatedZombie · 07/04/2022 17:01

'they' is usually okay. And we're allowed to correctly sex a person, on the whole ('X is male, was born male, will always be male,' etc). But take care with 'man/male/he/him' etc.

LittleSnakes · 07/04/2022 17:02

Btw I’m assuming it was pronouns. Because my posts weren’t inflammatory. Just took the piss a bit out of their book title and being shit at makeup.

Helleofabore · 07/04/2022 17:02

It was really hard to work out where to put the commas!

Oh for the love of a succinct paragraph!

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