Government ban on conversion therapy dropped

[DERFDogmaExlusionary]

Breaking news

Leaked briefing "The PM has agreed we should not move forward with legislation to ban LGBT conversion therapy"

And by separating the T from LGB, there is no more piggybacking on gay rights - the T itself has to be discussed in its own right.

Rather clever, as well as the right thing to do.

Also by separating the T, it means organisations whose single sole solitary mission it seems to be, to enforce this ideology on everyone else, will become isolated.

What is trans conversion therapy, please explain it for our viewers at home?

^
That's what interviewers should ask.

@MargaritaPie

Sad that it looks like the UK will fall behind other countries in Europe in terms of LGBT-rights.

How is it sad that the UK is actually making a stand that many other European countries have made, i.e. the rush to dope and/or surgically intervene is an entire shitshow and not in the best interests of the patient, particularly when considering that most people with 'gender dysphoria' age out and go on to live healthy lives, whether that is straight or gay.

@teawamutu

And by separating the T from LGB, there is no more piggybacking on gay rights - the T itself has to be discussed in its own right.

Rather clever, as well as the right thing to do.

There is a strong movemernt within the LGB that wants to distance from the T, mainly because most don't see it as relevant to the issues gays and lesbians (always strange bedfellows) deem important. Now, with trans so much at the foreftont and basically given a pass for anything and everything, our gay and lesbian friends are being labelled transphobic for not wanting to date trans men and women, and are e en being pushed out of their dating apps. I' a straight woman with a lot of gay friends and this issue is freaking them out. They have a hard time believing men are being put in women's prisons, but like all of us, when it comes to encroaching on their spaces, gay men in particular are starting to rise up. They are our allies because they don't want to cosplay us.

Imagine if LGB Conversion Therapy is outlawed by an act of Parliament, without the T, and in response to campaigning for the T, the activists are asked to make a non-Trojan Horse case? Within the context of a newly released Cass rerport? As the activities of GenderGP are becoming more widely known?

That would be a nightmare for trans activists and #nodebaters.

@nauticant

The more this goes on the more I feel inclined to vote in a way that is most likely to keep Labour out of government. Until Labour comes to their senses it's clear that them forming a government will see a tsunami of new laws to push gender identity ideology and none of them will contain a scintilla of critical thought. They will all be crowd-pleasers to keep trans activists on side.

This

According to twitter Boris has done a partial U turn and will now be banning the LGB part after a backlash.

@nauticant

Imagine if LGB Conversion Therapy is outlawed by an act of Parliament, without the T, and in response to campaigning for the T, the activists are asked to make a non-Trojan Horse case? Within the context of a newly released Cass rerport? As the activities of GenderGP are becoming more widely known?

That would be a nightmare for trans activists and #nodebaters.

Seems like this is now a distinct possibility.

@nauticant

Imagine if LGB Conversion Therapy is outlawed by an act of Parliament, without the T, and in response to campaigning for the T, the activists are asked to make a non-Trojan Horse case? Within the context of a newly released Cass rerport? As the activities of GenderGP are becoming more widely known?

That would be a nightmare for trans activists and #nodebaters.

If this happened, would that mean that saying homosexual people who are not willing to date those of the opposite sex are bigots, and subjecting them to abuse would be illegal? That’d put the cat amongst the pigeons.

@titchy

Hmm I wonder if it was planned this way. Optics now make BJ look quite good. Or maybe that's the gin talking!

It rather reminds me of an episode of 'Yes Minister' but that shows my age lol.

@nauticant

Imagine if LGB Conversion Therapy is outlawed by an act of Parliament, without the T, and in response to campaigning for the T, the activists are asked to make a non-Trojan Horse case? Within the context of a newly released Cass rerport? As the activities of GenderGP are becoming more widely known?

That would be a nightmare for trans activists and #nodebaters.

Chinese proverb: 'May you live through interesting times'

Would appear to be a partial U-turn again, but a very good one. Conversion therapy for LGB will be outlawed, but the T will be left out of it.

Be interesting to see the arguments for the T part on its own now, and not off of the back of LGB.

It rather reminds me of an episode of 'Yes Minister' but that shows my age lol

Doesn't it? (Another old hummer here!)

*gimmer

@nauticant

Imagine if LGB Conversion Therapy is outlawed by an act of Parliament, without the T, and in response to campaigning for the T, the activists are asked to make a non-Trojan Horse case? Within the context of a newly released Cass rerport? As the activities of GenderGP are becoming more widely known?

That would be a nightmare for trans activists and #nodebaters.

This is exactly what needs to happen, and what will surely have to happen now?

#nodebate is so over.

It's so easy to explain as well:

Being trans = major, potentially irreversible, changes to the physical body. Therefore some form of counselling/psychological therapy is essential.
Being gay = absolutely no changes to the physical body, no drugs or surgery required. Therefore no counselling or therapy is needed.

This is just so simple to me?

@Hasselhoffsheadband

It's so easy to explain as well:

Being trans = major, potentially irreversible, changes to the physical body. Therefore some form of counselling/psychological therapy is essential.
Being gay = absolutely no changes to the physical body, no drugs or surgery required. Therefore no counselling or therapy is needed.

This is just so simple to me?

I was under the impression that for any medical treatment they have to explain both the positives and negatives and potential side-effects.

It amazes me that it would be made illegal for a doctor to fully explain the treatment because discussing the negatives could be considered "conversion therapy".

@Hasselhoffsheadband

It's so easy to explain as well:

Being trans = major, potentially irreversible, changes to the physical body. Therefore some form of counselling/psychological therapy is essential.
Being gay = absolutely no changes to the physical body, no drugs or surgery required. Therefore no counselling or therapy is needed.

This is just so simple to me?

Yes - I want to save that explanation somewhere so I can trot it out.

To BootsandRoots. Children cannot consent to life-altering drugs because they are not mature enough to understand the implications for their health, sex life etc. and if left alone many will just turn out to be 'gay' not 'trans'.

Wow Tories have played a blinder with the PR there. Excellent outcome

“with the intention of changing their sexual orientation or changing them to or from being transgender”.

So I'm confused. The Sex matters link (v. helpful) talked about a therapist trying to help a confused 10-year old. If the therapist did not provide a space or the child to explore their issues and instead put them on a puberty blocker pathway with its known entrenching of gender dyphoria, is that not falling foul of this potential law?

I.e. the best evidence suggests that the current situation falls under the definition of 'changing them to be transgender' and should be considered conversion therapy.

Look at this BBC report by their LGBT ‘analyst’.
No where does he explain the concerns over the possibility that counselling for body dysphoric or gender non-conforming children could be termed conversion therapy.
Many of these children will go on to resolve these feelings, or some might go on to be gay. While an affirmation only model for such children could, ironically, mean converting gay children to trans gender, and putting children on a harmful pathway of drugs and possibly surgery.

No differential is given between LGB and T figures quoted for conversion therapy that has been taking place up until now.

The BBC article therefore omits important information for anyone who does not understand the issues.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60947028

Everything said in the first half of the thread is still true, though. It's already illegal to place people in therapy against their will, and none of the professional organizations allow it either. It still seems to be mainly performative legislation.

BBC is now reporting that ban will go ahead, but without the T

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60947028

It was in R4 - their LGBetc correspondent did a woeful attempt of explaining why T was separated.

Allllll all the bad religious types and nasty GCs forcing poor trans kids into suicidal thoughts and depression…

BBC - unbiased as ever…

Given this government’s history on U-turns, I am not holding my breath, but the current situation (ban on sexuality conversion therapy but no ban on anything relating to transgender) is perfect.

I wonder if it was made clear to the government exactly how difficult it would be to draft a law banning transgender conversion therapy. Because the first step would be to work out at exactly what point someone ‘became’ transgender.