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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Government ban on conversion therapy dropped

324 replies

DERFDogmaExlusionary · 31/03/2022 18:15

Breaking news

Leaked briefing "The PM has agreed we should not move forward with legislation to ban LGBT conversion therapy"

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Random789 · 31/03/2022 19:03

The proposed ban was incredibly poorly worded and I am glad that the proposals as they stood are being abandoned. Conversion therapy is abhorent of course , and there is a genuine danger of it in relation to LGB people. But I think that the existing regulatory systems provided by professional bodies in this area, plus restrictions on promoting abusive 'therapies', enforced by the ASA, are already adequate, and the only point of this proposed legislation was to win brownie points.

I did respond to the consultation, in my capacity as a parent of someone who, in the throes of severe psychosis and under the influence of some very dodgy chat forums, developed a delusion of being transgender.

My experience of trying to support him through that crisis, of trying to respect two possibilities (the possibility that he was transgender plus the possibility that he was severely mentally ill) meant that I was HORRIFIED by the chilling effect that the ban would have on very ordinary exploratory therapeutic practices.

AS usual, people with psychosis were very much at the back of the queue in the wording of this consultation, and that made me f*cking furious.

PrelateChuckles · 31/03/2022 19:06

sex-matters.org/posts/sex/sex-matters-statement-on-conversion-therapy

It has been reported by ITV that the government is abandoning plans for legislation to criminalise “conversion therapy”, and will instead undertake non-legislative measures.

Human rights organisation Sex Matters welcomes this news. Maya Forstater, Executive Director of Sex Matters, said:

“This news comes as a huge relief. Doctors are supposed to do no harm. Gender-distressed children have been ill-served by the ideological approach that has become common in recent years. Waiting for the final Cass Review is obviously the right thing to do. There is now an opportunity to hear a wider variety of voices and look at the evidence before rushing into legislation that would have harmed the very people it was supposed to help."

The planned legislation was muddled, incoherent and dangerous. They conflated two entirely different things – sexual orientation, which is a verifiable characteristic and has little or no impact on others – and gender identity – which is unclear and indefinable.

The planned bill could potentially have criminalised ordinary interactions with gender-distressed people, including children, and evidence-based therapies such as “watchful waiting”. It would instead have put into law a vexxed, evidence-free approach to gender identity, including for children, that is known to lead to permanent medicalisation, sexual dysfunction, sterility and a range of health problems. The government is right to press pause.

These issues were raised in responses to the consultation on the proposed bill by organisations such as Sex Matters, Transgender Trend and the LGB Alliance, as well as the Equality and Human Rights Commission. Transgender advocacy organisations such as Mermaids, Gendered Intelligence and Stonewall that have promoted childhood transition by propounding a view of gender that is uncoupled from biological sex promoted the flawed plan. Sex Matters has collated all the organisational responses to the proposal

The planned bill was based on the idea children can be “transgender” or “cisgender”, but the recent interim report by Hillary Cass on gender-identity services for children concluded that “there is lack of consensus and open discussion about the nature of gender dysphoria and therefore about the appropriate clinical response.” Dr Cass found that clinical staff feel under pressure to adopt an “unquestioning affirmative approach” with children experiencing gender issues, and that this is at odds with the standard process of clinical assessment and diagnosis that they have been trained to undertake.

Criminalising a vaguely defined practice of “gender identity conversion therapy” would only have made it harder to provide responsive, precautionary care for such children.

The proposal mixed up sexual orientation and “being transgender” (which it failed to define), and applied the concept of “conversion therapy” to both of them as if they were the same. In reality, gender identity and sexual orientation are separate concepts with no logical connection.

The Equality and Human Rights Commission was also concerned that the proposed legislation lacked a sound evidence base, and that it risked preventing “legitimate and appropriate counselling, therapy or support which enables a person to explore their sexual orientation or gender dysphoria” and “criminalising mainstream religious practice such as preaching, teaching and praying about sexual ethics”.

The number of children presenting with gender-related mental-health issues has risen rapidly in recent years. A rising share are teenage girls. Many of these children are same-sex attracted; a disproportionate number are on the autistic spectrum.

ResisterRex · 31/03/2022 19:16

Dodds saying "Labour will never abandon the fight to ban this insidious practice forever".

They just don't listen. Or read. The problems with it were set out well by the EHRC. And there's the interim Cass report. And the existing legislation. It's all right there, for anyone to access. I can't fathom why they either haven't read it or can't understand it.

BootsAndRoots · 31/03/2022 19:17

I'm a bit suspicious something like this has leaked in the way that it has. I reckon there are some campaigning civil servants who have deliberately leaked it in order to get the government to deny it and U-turn (essentially going ahead with the ban).

We know that conversion therapy bill has nothing to do with LGB people, it is about prosecuting people who say "are you sure?" to potential trans people.

Why do people think that it is right to ban any discussion around alternative treatments and ban any talk of side-effects from medication, treatment and surgeries for trans people?

BootsAndRoots · 31/03/2022 19:18

Also just to point out that it is "Transgender Awareness Day" today, so the timing is deliberate.

jkrfan · 31/03/2022 19:19

That is fantastic news....it was worth filling out that consultation.

AssignedBlobbyAtBirth · 31/03/2022 19:20

Good. Its like the misogyny legislation
Hijacked by the T

jkrfan · 31/03/2022 19:22

@MargaritaPie

Sad that it looks like the UK will fall behind other countries in Europe in terms of LGBT-rights.
What rubbish. This was a Bill of Unintended Consequences to impress at a conference....conversion therapy is already effectively illegal...
tabbycatstripy · 31/03/2022 19:27

Government spokesperson has already responded and confirmed. They’re not doing it. They think the existing law is strong enough.

jkrfan · 31/03/2022 19:27

@tabbycatstripy

AnotherLass: but people are overwhelmingly in favour of gay and bisexual rights. Coercing someone into ‘therapy’ by force is already illegal. I don’t see who this was going to help. It was a Trojan horse, that’s all.
THIS. It was not needed and was just to look good at a Conference. UK Law already protects everybody if correctly applied rather than wilfully misinterpreted by Stonewall etc
jkrfan · 31/03/2022 19:30

@ResisterRex

Dodds saying "Labour will never abandon the fight to ban this insidious practice forever".

They just don't listen. Or read. The problems with it were set out well by the EHRC. And there's the interim Cass report. And the existing legislation. It's all right there, for anyone to access. I can't fathom why they either haven't read it or can't understand it.

Children and young people are not safe with Labour/LibDem/SNP/Green....despite belated references to our biology.
jkrfan · 31/03/2022 19:33

@tabbycatstripy

Anneliese Dodds not happy.
More fool her...is she really an educated woman?
DERFDogmaExlusionary · 31/03/2022 19:34

The problems with it were set out well by the EHRC. And there's the interim Cass report.

And the Dr's Webberley tribunal's revealing horrific details. Those poor children

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tabbycatstripy · 31/03/2022 19:37

Alicia Kearns says: “Damn the objectors.”

Not very democratic of her.

Rhannion · 31/03/2022 19:39

The report on ITV news earlier was incredibly biased.

Rhannion · 31/03/2022 19:41

@MrsOvertonsWindow

OMG - people have started to say no to Stonewall and the lobby groups! Can you imagine the tantrums there'll be Shock
The tantrums have started...
DERFDogmaExlusionary · 31/03/2022 19:42

LGB Alliance@ALLIANCELGB
1/6
Why your support for LGB Alliance is effective and really matters (thread).

The govt's decision to abandon plans for a Bill to ban Conversion Therapy is a sign of the confidence that, in general, conversion therapy practices for LGB people are already illegal in this country
2/6
The UK is a fantastic place to be lesbian, gay or bisexual. It’s also a fantastic place to be transgender. Nowhere in the world are trans people more visible, or their rights better guaranteed.

The UK leads the world with our legislation on equality.
3/6
Sexual orientation and gender reassignment are both protected characteristics in the Equality Act and the rights of each group must always be balanced.
4/6
We must now focus on a very real conversion therapy scandal that is taking place as we speak: the large number of girls, many of them lesbian, who believe that if they are gender non-conforming they may need to change their bodies with drugs and surgery.
5/6
The interim Report from the Cass Review, which is investigating the surge in young people seeking to make permanent changes to their bodies, is where we should now focus our attention.
6/6
We were the only LGB charity that countered the narrative that this ban was urgent and that it had to contain both sexual orientation and gender identity. Please help us continue to represent the genuine interests of lesbians, gay men and bisexuals.
twitter.com/ALLIANCELGB/status/1509596900592431113

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Rhannion · 31/03/2022 19:43

@BootsAndRoots

Also just to point out that it is "Transgender Awareness Day" today, so the timing is deliberate.
Is that why Sturgeon was wearing a purple ribbon today I wonder?
DERFDogmaExlusionary · 31/03/2022 19:45

TransgenderTrend
@Transgendertrd
·
1h
This is a good decision for the protection of children & young people. We are pleased the government has taken note of the #Cass report which highlighted the pressure clinicians already feel to simply 'affirm' a child who identifies as 'transgender.'

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cocoapopfan · 31/03/2022 19:47

Very biased report from the BBC. Worth a complaint, I think.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60947028

Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky · 31/03/2022 19:49

Twitter is awash with outrage from pretty much every direction. The reporting from every news outlet is extremely biased. This is going to be a massive massive shitstorm

tabbycatstripy · 31/03/2022 19:53

If I wanted to get rid of Freer and Herbert and Brady and the rest of them, this is how I’d do it as well. Give them a plank, watch them walk it.

IvyTwines · 31/03/2022 19:55

I really wish the people in my twitter timeline would actually pause in their howling and read the Sex Matters statement.

Pixiedust1234 · 31/03/2022 19:58

It seemed a good idea at first until you looked more closely at it. Once Stonewall gave their "approval" I thought hell no, its a very very bad bill. Thank goodness its been dropped

Hasselhoffsheadband · 31/03/2022 20:01

@Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky

Twitter is awash with outrage from pretty much every direction. The reporting from every news outlet is extremely biased. This is going to be a massive massive shitstorm
Yes, because 'dropping a ban on conversion therapy for LGBT people' sounds very bad doesn't it?

But anyone who has actually bothered to look into this issue will know that it could have led to it becoming illegal to do anything but completely affirm a gender questioning child, including medicalisation, because anything other than total affirmation would be classed as 'conversion therapy'.

This is another instance where the T has latched onto LGB.

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