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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Government ban on conversion therapy dropped

324 replies

DERFDogmaExlusionary · 31/03/2022 18:15

Breaking news

Leaked briefing "The PM has agreed we should not move forward with legislation to ban LGBT conversion therapy"

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Artichokeleaves · 05/04/2022 20:30

I take that back - I see that Damian Green's just had a good go on R4 at explaining.

MangyInseam · 05/04/2022 20:37

@Artichokeleaves

What is their purported reason for pretending they support gay people? If they're going to say same-sex attraction is wrong, then either they should not want same-sex-attracted people on board - or they want them to stop being same-sex attracted i.e. be converted to accept the opposite sex.

The evidence of this is all over threads right here.

LGB has been redefined, and LGBT+ now no longer means 'a group of diverse people sharing only one characteristic: that of homosexuality'.

It now means 'a group of people of any sexuality at all, straight included, united by a political position of gender identity'.

Those not politically compliant are excluded and no longer regarded as LGB. In the same way as female people who cannot be politically compliant with mixed sex spaces can be excluded from women's spaces and resources and de personed.

However Stonewall are relying heavily on this not being realised or pointed out, and trading still on the trust of representing and support all LGB people (including the homosexual ones.) While actually being very pro conversion therapy for lesbians.

That's interesting, because it's the same as the race question in the US, whiteness and blackness are seen, more than anything, as political positions.

But again, it all depends on the assumption that this is in fact a natural grouping which represents also one political position which is related to hierarchical systems.

I think that for some younger people and academics, this now is all part of a completely alternate way of thinking about these things as systems. And for some of the younger ones in particular they may not realize that this is different.

Artichokeleaves · 05/04/2022 20:40

it all depends on the assumption that this is in fact a natural grouping which represents also one political position

That.

And those who are part of the natural grouping with other views are just depersoned to make it appear that they don't exist and this group are all of one mind. So if politicians care about this group properly they will do what it says.

Up until now, politicians have either been lazy enough or naive enough to believe them without question, but Johnson and co seem to be waking up to this.

2022 needs to be the year of boundaries and cynicism.

Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky · 05/04/2022 21:22

Bbc says conference cancelled www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61002448

ScrollingLeaves · 05/04/2022 21:26

“Artichokeleaves

It's really amazing that in all the reporting on this, no one , not government, not newspapers, is explaining to the general public why TQ+ 'conversion therapy' is a different thing, problematic and the reasons for separating LGB from T. Once you know the reasons it's bloody obvious this needs a lot of care, unpacking and caution.

But it's just being presented as some random unexplained bit of lunacy.“

I agree. It has made me start to doubt news reporters generally as being part of ministries of misinformation to some extent.

DomesticatedZombie · 05/04/2022 21:28

Oh no, how sad, all that tax money saved ...

Artichokeleaves · 05/04/2022 21:29

From the BBC Link: (thank you!)

Some groups have expressed concern it could impede those helping people with gender dysphoria by blocking explorative therapies or those that do not automatically affirm someone's gender identity.

The government had promised to outlaw the practice of conversion therapy for all, but announced last week any ban would only apply to attempts to alter a person's sexuality, not attempts to try to change people's gender identity.

A spokesperson said the government would carry out "separate work" on the issue of transgender conversion therapy but it was keen for any legislation not to have "unintended consequences", adding it was a "legally complex area".

Responding to the legislation on Friday, Nikki da Costa, a former director of legislative affairs at No 10, said elements of the law would have had "profound consequences for children struggling with gender dysphoria".

She told BBC Radio 4's Today: "Doctors, therapists and parents would be deterred from exploring with a child any feelings of what else may be going on, for fear of being told they're trying to change a child's identity", adding it was "deeply concerning".

Wow BBC, some actual explanation of the problem!

Plus the immediate rider that the Welsh govt are trying to find a way to push it through despite all this, which makes them look deranged.

Crcohetmonster · 05/04/2022 21:30

[quote Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky]Bbc says conference cancelled www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61002448[/quote]
Bet NK is gutted and very confused, I mean, these tactics have worked in the past, so the government calling SW bluff must have come as a surprise,

Lovelyricepudding · 05/04/2022 21:30

[quote Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky]Bbc says conference cancelled www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61002448[/quote]
Good. If nothing else the pure act of trying to blackmail the government over this should be enough for it to be cancelled.

Artichokeleaves · 05/04/2022 21:34

The sheer title of it is an insult. 'Safe to be me' - not if you're female and needing single sex services or wanting to be allowed to be an out homosexual.

Then you're not safe to be you At All.

jkrfan · 05/04/2022 21:42

@2Rebecca

I don't want my tax money going on a conference any way. It's the sort of conference the Tories would have criticised Ken Livingston's GLC for holding in the 80s. Spend the money on education and health. It will be all about the T (and the +s) the way the main LGBT organisations are at the moment. I've no desire to pay for or have media coverage of a large transactivist conference. Lesbians who know what women are will be excluded or harassed anyway
Fair comment.
tabbycatstripy · 05/04/2022 21:58

Again, if you look at the AKT thread (Twitter) on conversion therapy, it’s focused on the family: ‘Most of the young people AKT support will have experienced some form of conversion therapy or coercive practices before becoming homeless.’

‘Conversion therapy’ means, in this context and in the opinion of this organisation, not agreeing with a young person that they have changed sex, and the relationship breaking down.

This is not something that needs to be criminalised. People are entitled to their beliefs.

KittenKong · 05/04/2022 22:14

@Artichokeleaves

The sheer title of it is an insult. 'Safe to be me' - not if you're female and needing single sex services or wanting to be allowed to be an out homosexual.

Then you're not safe to be you At All.

And it’s not ‘safe’ to speak out against single sex loos, pronouns etc etc etc.

Oh the irony!

Hoardasurass · 05/04/2022 22:49

Now I'm not sure if I'm missing something here (am dyslexic) but does the paragraph about the NHS read as if someone cut a huge chunk out?

Government ban on conversion therapy dropped
ScrollingLeaves · 05/04/2022 23:09

@OvaHere

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d6fba9a6-b502-11ec-8c29-375fe0cc1f19?shareToken=b37f3d6c011d88e36b455977f8d32249

Thank you. That Times article doesn’t say why Trans will not be part of the ban. Or did I miss something? It makes it seem as though the government agrees LGB people should not be subject to ‘Conversion Therapy’ but Trans people should be. By omitting the salient considerations it is misleading.

ScrollingLeaves · 05/04/2022 23:11

…..but thinks Trans people should be.

AnnieLou12 · 05/04/2022 23:35

Sonia Sodha on Sky News papers review just did a really clear, succinct explanation of why it made very good sense for there to be further work done on the definition of conversion therapy for trans young people. She was following on from their political correspondent, John Craig, who was only interested in conveying the mess he said the government had made and suggestions that it was just part of operation red meat/operation big dog designed to appease Tory backbenchers and save Boris.

ResisterRex · 06/04/2022 08:22

Anyone else seen Twitter seemingly try to promote the not safe to be me hashtag over the last day or so? It keeps popping up and isn't even close to 7000 tweets. Just wondered if it was then trying to promote it as the ins and outs of Twitter has never been my forte.

Hoardasurass · 06/04/2022 10:52

The Spectator has done another great article on this which explains clearly in simple language why it was the correct decision to drop the T from the conversion therapy bill
www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-true-cause-of-number-10-s-conversion-therapy-muddle

nauticant · 06/04/2022 13:37

In case anyone's wondering why the BBC appear in some reports to be trying to be objective, I believe part of the reason is that one of the main reporters is Lauren Moss, LGBT correspondent. Her previous roles have been "U.K. Health Correspondent, Social Affairs & Education & Political Editor", that is a background in news reporting. I'm hoping that unlike recent LGBT correspondents her background means she prefers to prioritise news over activism.

ScrollingLeaves · 06/04/2022 13:40

It is definitely only in some reports, but I hope you are right.

nauticant · 06/04/2022 13:43

It's just that whenever I've seen her name attached either to a printed report or to a broadcast one I've thought "blimey, that BBC report has some resemblance to the actual facts!"

Hoardasurass · 09/04/2022 11:16

There's a petition on change about this it doesn't seem to be doing very well

Government ban on conversion therapy dropped
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