Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

‘Trans women have been using women's spaces for years’

607 replies

DameHelena · 26/03/2022 19:41

What does one say to this argument? I’m instinctively sceptical but I don’t know if I’m right to be.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
bellinisurge · 30/03/2022 15:15

I'm 56. I have never complimented random strangers in a public loo about their appearance. And I have been to a few public loos at various venues in my time.
I may occasionally interact with someone who is on their own wrangling a child/children to show a smile of morale support or something.

maddy68 · 30/03/2022 15:15

I am also in my 50s. It's happened all my life it's where woman always have a chat as there is always a queue?

Maybe it's a regional thing. Us northerners are friendly

knittingaddict · 30/03/2022 15:16

Terfydactyl I'm 57 and totally agree with you. Chats and compliments in public loos are not in my experience at all and I'm an oversharer who will talk to anyone.

bellinisurge · 30/03/2022 15:17

"I also compliment other ladies." I don't refer to other women as "ladies" either.

knittingaddict · 30/03/2022 15:17

@maddy68

I am also in my 50s. It's happened all my life it's where woman always have a chat as there is always a queue? Maybe it's a regional thing. Us northerners are friendly
Chatting maybe. Complimenting people on the colour of their lipstick? Too personal, surely?
bellinisurge · 30/03/2022 15:18

@maddy68 , I'm a northerner. Chat? Maybe. Compliment each other's clothes? Nope. Don't do that. Never seen it either.

TeenPlusCat · 30/03/2022 15:19

Velvet Actually I think anxiety that severely impinges on life can be considered a disability. So if your 11yo is too anxious to act as other 11yos then this would be good enough reason to use the disabled toilets.

maddy68 · 30/03/2022 15:20

[quote bellinisurge]@maddy68 , I'm a northerner. Chat? Maybe. Compliment each other's clothes? Nope. Don't do that. Never seen it either. [/quote]
Well that's your experience not mine

MyLittlePhonyPony · 30/03/2022 15:25

@VelvetChairGirl I would be very surprised if your son, having an anxiety that effects his life like this, would not be classified as disabled. Mental health is one of the criteria the NHS use for assessing disability so you should speak to your healthcare provider to get the support/access you need. Mental health conditions are nothing to be ashamed about.

You need to think about the impact your son will have on females with similar health conditions. Just as people won't be able to 'see' your son's anxiety by just looking, you can't tell how his presence may effect someone else.

As someone who has a full range of disability in my family now, I can tell you radar keys are not just for those in wheelchairs. I know there is a stigma that people assume if you can walk you are not entitled to provision, but invisible disability exists and needs to be catered for.

And I am sorry, but to be blunt eleven is too old to be doing that and you are the responsible one as a parent to navigate a solution for him.

Hope that doesn't come across too harsh. I have faced difficulties advocating for my family so I know it is difficult balancing needs and it can feel a very lonely place.

Dinosauria · 30/03/2022 15:26

they are not accessible they are locked

Get a radar key then. It is not right that you expect women and girls to create your solution.

(And I do have sympathy, I have a family member that has to use accessible toilets, the provisions are poor, but the answer is not to expect women and children to give up their space)

what age would you stop taking a man into the ladies?

Dinosauria · 30/03/2022 15:28

*girls, although I guess children, certainly under 8, 11 is too old.

Snugglepumpkin · 30/03/2022 15:30

Biological women are socialised NOT to engage in random conversations with strangers from a young age.

By the time they are adults, they don't habitually start up conversations in toilets etc... with people they don't already know & people who do are almost always regarded as odd.

Terfydactyl · 30/03/2022 15:45

www.ageukincontinence.co.uk/incontinence-shop/toilet-aids/disabled-toilet-keys.html

Other providers are available, I got mine here because stress incontinence.

KimikosNightmare · 30/03/2022 15:47

@knittingaddict

Terfydactyl I'm 57 and totally agree with you. Chats and compliments in public loos are not in my experience at all and I'm an oversharer who will talk to anyone.
Guess I must be, to use that hackneyed FWR expression, " womaning wrong" then. As are the women who have spoken to me.

I suppose you , general you, who don't believe this are a bit like me when I read the many comments on FWR about the need to wash blood drenched hands and empty moon cups in the shared sinks. Never seen that happen.

maddy68 · 30/03/2022 15:49

@Snugglepumpkin

Biological women are socialised NOT to engage in random conversations with strangers from a young age.

By the time they are adults, they don't habitually start up conversations in toilets etc... with people they don't already know & people who do are almost always regarded as odd.

This is possibly the most important rediculous thing I have read in such a long time
MyLittlePhonyPony · 30/03/2022 15:50

Actually I think anxiety that severely impinges on life can be considered a disability.

It is. And your son almost certainly meets the criteria based on what you have posted.

Terfydactyl · 30/03/2022 16:02

I suppose you , general you, who don't believe this are a bit like me when I read the many comments on FWR about the need to wash blood drenched hands and empty moon cups in the shared sinks Never seen that happen

Me neither , never seen it happen , yet I believe those who say it has, I've had terrible and bloody periods and my bathroom looked like an abbatoir after, I've been lucky to not have it happen in public bogs is all.

I dont disbelieve anyone who says they've had actual conversations with women in the bogs, I find it hard to believe ive never heard one of these conversations, a few I've assumed are friends or related women, mother daughter kind of thing. Possibly I'm wrong and they are not mates and not related and it was simply strangers talking.

DameHelena · 30/03/2022 16:08

@Terfydactyl

I suppose you , general you, who don't believe this are a bit like me when I read the many comments on FWR about the need to wash blood drenched hands and empty moon cups in the shared sinks Never seen that happen

Me neither , never seen it happen , yet I believe those who say it has, I've had terrible and bloody periods and my bathroom looked like an abbatoir after, I've been lucky to not have it happen in public bogs is all.

I dont disbelieve anyone who says they've had actual conversations with women in the bogs, I find it hard to believe ive never heard one of these conversations, a few I've assumed are friends or related women, mother daughter kind of thing. Possibly I'm wrong and they are not mates and not related and it was simply strangers talking.

I think you're exaggerating just a smidge with 'blood-drenched hands'. I agree with Terfydactyl; I just consider myself lucky I've never had flooding/other messy period issues in a public loo. It's not just extreme circumstances women talk about on this subject though. Some say they just don't want to be audibly unwrapping tampons or whatever when men are in the room, which is fair enough.
OP posts:
Snugglepumpkin · 30/03/2022 16:24

It's not ridiculous at all.
We teach children not to talk to strangers.
We teach girls to be careful around males of any age or to be wary of anyone who wants to engage them in conversation & ask to e.g. show them a puppy/sweets etc..
We teach then not to stop to talk to strangers in the street asking for directions/the time etc.. & to disbelieve strangers who tell them 'I know your mummy/daddy/granny/teacher etc..)

We teach them not to be in isolated places with strange males in particular but also to be wary of being in isolated spaces with strange women.

It's why so many adult people step over or ignore collapsed people or people exhibiting signs of extreme distress in the street.
They are taught not to get involved because it might not be safe.
They wouldn't ignore someone they knew even vaguely.

People are distantly polite, they usually smile if they catch your eye, they may indicate that a cubicle is available if they are waiting for someone else but not using the toilet themselves in case someone thinks they are in the queue, but they don't strike up friendships or perform social stroking in the loo unless they are drunk or with people they already know.
Women don't go to the toilet to have social interactions with strangers.
They go to use the toilets.

Women grow up being taught the world can be an unsafe space.
Don't wear that skirt, don't leave your drink unattended, don't go out alone, don't walk down that dark lane, don't take that shortcut etc...
It's not because the skirt, drink, lane etc... are dangerous.
It's because MEN might use those things as excuses or opportunities to harm them.

Waitwhat23 · 30/03/2022 16:46

I suppose you , general you, who don't believe this are a bit like me when I read the many comments on FWR about the need to wash blood drenched hands and empty moon cups in the shared sinks Never seen that happen

I have PCOS. My periods are both unreliable and heavy and it's not at all unusual for me to have to wipe blood off the bathroom floor with toilet tissue when I've stood up. I've had to spot clean trousers so that blood stains aren't so obvious and yes, I've had to wash my 'blood drenched' hands.

Believe me or not, it's entirely up to you. I know it happens though.

maddy68 · 30/03/2022 16:48

@Snugglepumpkin

It's not ridiculous at all. We teach children not to talk to strangers. We teach girls to be careful around males of any age or to be wary of anyone who wants to engage them in conversation & ask to e.g. show them a puppy/sweets etc.. We teach then not to stop to talk to strangers in the street asking for directions/the time etc.. & to disbelieve strangers who tell them 'I know your mummy/daddy/granny/teacher etc..)

We teach them not to be in isolated places with strange males in particular but also to be wary of being in isolated spaces with strange women.

It's why so many adult people step over or ignore collapsed people or people exhibiting signs of extreme distress in the street.
They are taught not to get involved because it might not be safe.
They wouldn't ignore someone they knew even vaguely.

People are distantly polite, they usually smile if they catch your eye, they may indicate that a cubicle is available if they are waiting for someone else but not using the toilet themselves in case someone thinks they are in the queue, but they don't strike up friendships or perform social stroking in the loo unless they are drunk or with people they already know.
Women don't go to the toilet to have social interactions with strangers.
They go to use the toilets.

Women grow up being taught the world can be an unsafe space.
Don't wear that skirt, don't leave your drink unattended, don't go out alone, don't walk down that dark lane, don't take that shortcut etc...
It's not because the skirt, drink, lane etc... are dangerous.
It's because MEN might use those things as excuses or opportunities to harm them.

I guess that depends on your level of paranoia Why would you tell anyone not to talk to strangers. Predators are generally well known to victims

You teach children to be careful not scared of people and definitely not a bloody conversation in a queue

Personally I usually enjoy the loo conversation. It whiles away a few minutes

5zeds · 30/03/2022 16:58

Most of the disabled older boys/young men go in the disabled toilets. It really isn’t appropriate for them to be in the ladies. My ds is older now but I actually think it’s very short sighted to keep taking a disabled male into the ladies as they are incredibly vulnerable to false accusations of inappropriate behaviour anyway. Why would you teach your son a behaviour that might cause him huge issues later on?

StopLying · 30/03/2022 17:18

they are not accessible they are locked

11 is too old to be taking a male into the women's toilets. I doubt it will be long before someone comments on it / challenges you about it If it hasn't happened already. If your son is too anxious to go in the men's then you need to get a radar key.

DameHelena · 30/03/2022 17:20

Forgive the dim question but what's a radar key?

OP posts:
bellinisurge · 30/03/2022 17:26

It's to allow you to access disabled toilets. I have one.

Swipe left for the next trending thread