‘Trans women have been using women's spaces for years’

[DameHelena]

What does one say to this argument? I’m instinctively sceptical but I don’t know if I’m right to be.

@thirdfiddle

So you now cannot use your local pool unless you consent to naked males changing in your communal area with you?

Lia Thomas's teammates have reported the same. So they can't participate in college sports, can't keep their scholarships, and may lose their college places - if they won't consent to penis in communal changing area.

Headteacher at DS school told me if a child wasn't happy changing with opposite sex present, they could go to a separate private room. I think headteacher is hoping it won't happen or that girls can be bullied into compliance because there is 1 small separate room, potentially 29 girls changing and one tg.
When I mentioned to a fellow parent that this was the policy, she didn't believe me. It's not that everyone thinks TWAW and it's fine, it's "yeah tolerant blah blah - they wouldn't actually expect my daughter to change next to a male child though, that would be crazy"

I will add though it’s not my local pool, as in council owned. It’s a private gym chain with a pool. So of course I do still use my local council pool!

@Kanaloa

One thing that really fucking boils my piss though. Is being in a long freaking queue for the ladies which is populated with boys who are old enough to go to the toilet by themselves. As soon as they can unzip, pee, shake, zip up and wash their hands they should go in the men's.

Most kids can do this by age 4. I wouldn’t send a preschooler into the men’s toilets alone and wouldn’t expect most parents to.

What’s needed is more family toilets so parents can supervise their children. The answer isn’t sending small children into public toilets unsupervised and alone.

my son is 11 and frightened of men, he has severe anxiety problems if he went into the mens, he wouldnt be able to piss and would be asking to go behind a tree or something outside after.

he uses the mens in school but theres a difference between boys and adult men, hopefully he gets better as he gets bigger.

Under normal circumstances, I of course see nothing wrong with changing in the communal areas.

An intact male, though, even if a genuine transwoman, looks to be making some sort of point.

my son is 11 and frightened of men, he has severe anxiety problems if he went into the mens

So he goes in the women's?

@DrSbaitso

Or, dangerous

Single sex. Gender is a feeling. Some people don't even have one. The poster is making the point that people of any gender can use the correct toilet for their sex. Nobody is left without facilities.

Sorry, I read in haste and didn't cop that! Apologies

@Dinosauria

my son is 11 and frightened of men, he has severe anxiety problems if he went into the mens

So he goes in the women's?

yes with me.

velvet at what point do you think this might become a problem for other women and girls? Especially those frightened by men too? I understand that boys men with learning disabilities for example need to be catered for but not at the expense of others. So should use the facilities for disabled people.

I dont think I'd like to see a young man in the ladies. I think that would be reason to use the disabled?

Velvet

There are accessible toilets. He has a particular need to use them. What’s the issue?

It is rather indicative of the attitude and social problem right at the heart of all of this:

"I have a need. I therefore feel justified to ignore boundaries and meet my own need because I feel this works best for me. The issues this causes everyone else around me? Well I have a Need and it's more important than consideration for other people and my impact upon them."

This is largely why gatekeeping is required and will always be required to protect resources, and why self identification as a basis for anything will never work. People will not respect the needs of others, or permit their access and equality, if they can choose to put themselves first.

My son, who is now 12yo, has special needs and requires assistance in the toilet. He cannot go by himself. I generally take him in the disabled toilets, but sometimes they are inaccessible (it's amazing how frequently they are out of order). It is a problem.

I went to a wedding in Lincolnshire some years ago where the staff were using the disabled toilets to smoke in secret. Presumably they assumed that no one would want to use the disabled toilets, and didn't want to go out in the cold. I was very angry at the total lack of respect and consideration.

@OutlookStalking

I dont think I'd like to see a young man in the ladies. I think that would be reason to use the disabled?

I agree I have a child who suffers from anxiety so I am not unsympathetic but I didn’t think an 11 year old boy should be in the women’s toilets Sounds like a clear reason to use the disabled facilities instead

yes with me.

And as the others above have eloquently said, what about women and girls who are afraid of men? Why should women have to be accommodating?

We can't have single sex spaces which are single sex except....

@VampireMoney

My best friend is a transwoman. You'd walk past her in the loos and never even know she's trans. You might even compliment her on her beautiful hair or her outfit or ask where she got her shoes. She might say she loves your lipstick shade. And you'd go on with your day not knowing you'd spoken to a transwoman.

Get. A. Grip.

The stereotypes in this post.

Women do not go around complimenting perfect strangers in loos on their choice of clothes or shade of lipstick. It's complete fantasy.

I know it's totally irrelevant to the thread, but I have had only one friend over nearly 40 years who wore lipstick. Lipgloss sometimes when going out. Lipstain or balm. Mostly nothing.

It's not been a thing in my age group.

I notice much older women wearing it occasionally, but not very often.

Is this just unique for my area or have other people noticed this?

Personally I find lipstick vile for sensory reasons and dries out my lips like crazy.

@Dinosauria

yes with me.

And as the others above have eloquently said, what about women and girls who are afraid of men? Why should women have to be accommodating?

We can't have single sex spaces which are single sex except....

Yes, this. I do agree that disabled loos seem to be often out of order, or so unclean as to be unusable; I know it's a problem. That needs fixing, though, rather than 'solving' by having people of the opposite sex using women's loos.

Funny how wonwn and swirls are offered counselling to accept males on their spaces but everyone falls over backwards to fund excuses for said male.

Why are the boys and new never told to get counselling.

Women and girls

Autocorrect high today clearly

@Whatwouldscullydo

Women and girls

Autocorrect high today clearly

Even phones have been taught to hate the word women.

Yes the disabled loos are often messy or dirty. I’ve had to mention it to staff more than once since if DH isn’t with me I have to help ds8 in the toilets so we use the disabled. I think they don’t check them as often as then presume they’re not as used.

knittingaddict

VampireMoney

My best friend is a transwoman. You'd walk past her in the loos and never even know she's trans. You might even compliment her on her beautiful hair or her outfit or ask where she got her shoes. She might say she loves your lipstick shade. And you'd go on with your day not knowing you'd spoken to a transwoman

Get. A. Grip

The stereotypes in this post

Women do not go around complimenting perfect strangers in loos on their choice of clothes or shade of lipstick. It's complete fantasy

Yes they do; certainly re clothes. This has been covered at length in the thread.

Er yes they do. I was complemented on my dress only last night in the ladies ...
I also compliment other ladies. It's nice to be nice

@maddy68

Er yes they do. I was complemented on my dress only last night in the ladies ... I also compliment other ladies. It's nice to be nice

So 3 or 4 posters say chatting and complimenting happens in the ladies, most of the rest of us say uh no way.

I am now 52 years old, the only talking in any ladies loo was maybe in my teens with my mates in clubs and nightclubs ( I dont much recall it but it was a very long time ago) I have no recollection of anything more recent, as in the last 30 odd years. And I visited many a public loo. So I find it pretty odd that 3 or 4 extrapolated into the general population have experienced talking and I've never heard any of it in my time. Surely even though no one talks to me in bogs, I would have overheard these other compliments and towel asking conversations?

@Monitaurus

velvet at what point do you think this might become a problem for other women and girls? Especially those frightened by men too? I understand that boys men with learning disabilities for example need to be catered for but not at the expense of others. So should use the facilities for disabled people.

hes not disabled and hopefully he grows out of it, he certainly doesnt go in without me, he doesnt go anywhere without me except school.

@tabbycatstripy

Velvet

There are accessible toilets. He has a particular need to use them. What’s the issue?

they are not accessible they are locked