Active discussions

Help protect children from gaming harms.

Take our survey

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

AIBU? Trans friend....

609 replies

OrchardBlack · 21/03/2022 22:41

Have NC'd for this.

So a close friend of mine (female) and I booked tickets to an event in our town some time ago, due to take place in a few weeks. Both excited and looking forward to it , all good.

A few weeks ago she asks me if a male , straight friend of hers can also join, no problem, the more the merrier. I've never met him.

Except it now transpires that he has (quite suddenly from what I gather) said he is transitioning to be a woman and will use this night as his 'coming out'. He has messaged my friend saying that he's going to wear a sun dress and heels and he's nervous but excited too. He has also said we are to refer to him by his female name. My friend says he is currently in a relationship with a woman.

Now my friend is saying she is finding this all a lot to take on so suddenly as she's known him for many years as his male name and never even seen him with makeup on. I asked if he would be using the women's toilets on our night out, she doesn't know but I can only assume he is.

I feel very uncomfortable, as does my friend. I am fully supportive of people choosing to live how they wish, I just can't help feeling he's high-jacked our night. He isn't out as trans to any of his family etc so he has said no photos of the night etc. I'm also massively concerned that he is clearly still attracted to women and what this means for the safe spaces such as toilets etc.

She says she doesn't feel like she can talk to him about it and is concocting a plan to say she has covid and giving me my money back so we don't go. I'm dissapointed as I was looking forward to it.

AIBU to be deflated and a bit annoyed??

OP posts:
WouldBeGood · 22/03/2022 03:15

It was the bit about not out and no photos that made me think that. Apologies if I’ve got that wrong

Pinkbonbon · 22/03/2022 03:18

Why don't you just tell him that no, he cannot hijack your night out. That if he wants to come out of the closent then that great - but not on your time as this is a night out you and your mate had planned and you've no interest in making it all about him.

Don't cancel, just uninvite him.

CloseYourEyesAndSee · 22/03/2022 03:20

@ClaryFairchild

Of course someone dressed as a woman will be using the women's toilets. I don't like to but can you imagine the abuse they will have if they enter that men's toilets?!
Really?? Men should be allowed to abuse womens spaces because if they don't other men might abuse them??
WanderinWomb · 22/03/2022 03:22

Why is this not in AIBU @mumsnet ?

This guy is not "coming out " that night otherwise it wouldn't have to be a secret to his girlfriend and family. Something quite different is going on, and apart from anything else the secrecy will ruin your night. It's like being made party to an extra marital affair and being sworn to secrecy, it will ruin your enjoyment of the evening. Tell your freind you will certainly not keep any secrets from the girlfriend and see if the guy still wants to come.

Justilou1 · 22/03/2022 03:55

It’s a bit cringe derailling someone’s event to turn it into your own event… Like the bridesmaid announcing her pregnancy during her speech at the wedding reception. Time and a place.

PinaColada123456 · 22/03/2022 04:03

So once again, men spoil something for women, in this case, a nice trip you had planned. It's so unfair! Except it now transpires that he has (quite suddenly from what I gather) said he is transitioning to be a woman and will use this night as his 'coming out'.*
Men like this really have no sensitivity chip or self awareness, do they? They just muscle in and make it all about themselves, when he was graciously invited along to something he wasn't even originally apart of, it's very galling.

He has messaged my friend saying that he's going to wear a sun dress and heels
It's always all about the 'dress' and heels with them, isn't it? Always. Like they can't be a woman in jeans and a nice shirt or blouse. Hence why I don't buy that most of these trans women are genuine and to me they seem more interested in dress-ups and cross-dressing than actually being a woman.

My friend says he is currently in a relationship with a woman.
Woah! Does his partner know he is going away with 2 women? It's a wonder she hasn't asked to be invited, unless she doesn't even know about this. His selfishness knows no heights does it?

Why are these men so incredibly privileged and selfish that they HAVE to make everything about themselves? It's so very clearly a common denominator with these men - they never stop to think of anyone but themselves, they certainly never show any consideration or sensitivity to the 2 women here, they turned it all into about themselves. It seems to be a trans women trait. Think of no one but yourself.

I would be honest; because there really is no way out, he'll want to go even if your friend has covid, so he'll expect to go with you even if she can't go. Or he'll want to re-schedule. Seriously, there is no way around this, your friend will be simply putting off the inevitable. Have your friend be honest with him and say you are both uncomfortable with him using an offer to make it all about him, and you've both decided not to go, as you both are uncomfortable. It might mean the end of her friendship with him, but he clearly isn't much of a friend anyway, and this situation will continue to come up so your friend needs to probably exit the friendship with him. Because if he's this selfish, he will continue to make things difficult for your friend, especially when he learns she is uncomfortable with him using the womens toilets. It will have to come to a head sooner or later, I think she needs to make the decision now do a drift away from him.

Both of you go to the show on your own, no need to cancel, just be brutally honest and disinvite him, she can say you've both cancelled if she wants, but the two of you go anyway, he won't know. But, even doing that, she is eventually going to either have 'the' conversation with him, or stop seeing him. Eventually it will have to be dealt with head on.

PinaColada123456 · 22/03/2022 04:12

@Susu49

Um, yes I think yabu. Why can't you be happy for him?

Disclaimer: I'm aware I don't hold the same views as many in mumsnet.

@Susu49 The OP, nor her friend, are being unreasonable for not wanting their night out/trip away to be hijacked by a selfish and thoughtless man high on male privilege. HE is the one being unreasonable!!
Midlifemusings · 22/03/2022 04:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PinaColada123456 · 22/03/2022 04:20

@Nellle

Yes, that's literally what I said.

Sounds like OP (and OP's friend) will choose not be friends with this person based on their gender identity.

@Nellle Not based on their gender identity, but their absolute insensitivity, their thoughtlessness and selfishness.
PinaColada123456 · 22/03/2022 04:46

@Cheetocat

So another woman will be joining you and a friend? I don't see the issue, she's obviously not a predator or anything if your friend trusts her enough to have planned going to an event together in the first place.
@Cheetocat It's a man joining them, not a woman. And he has hijacked it and told them they can't take any photos of the night. How can you not see the issue with a man selfishly hijacking a night out and making it all about him?
PinaColada123456 · 22/03/2022 04:50

@Cheetocat You're exactly right, sexuality has got nothing to do with gender, she probably still likes women if she did before coming out. Are you scared she'll be peeping under the cubicle or something? I've never seen someone get a kick out of watching a lady use the loo tbh.

It's a he, not a she, just to clarify to you. There's 2 women and one man. And a) he has selfishly bulldozed through a girl's night out, abused the graciousness of the invite, hijacked the event to turn it all about himself, without even once asking how the women would feel about it.
b) he is a cross-dresser who has no place in women's facilities, women deserve dignity and safety. Pray tell, why do you think their are womens toilets in the first place?

PinaColada123456 · 22/03/2022 04:55

[quote Midlifemusings]@Kennykenkencat

We have no way to know what he will be like. He doesn't want to be in pictures on his first night in a dress because he isn't ready for it to spread though his friend's social media. I can respect that.

There is nothing that says he will dominate the conversation and make it all about him. It is being reported third hand by Op who heard it from a friend who spoke to the guy.

If OPs friend has known him awhile and been friends, it isn't like putting a dress on is going to flick a switch that turns him into an asshole.

People are inventing problems that don't exist in this scenario just to have something to be mad about but they are arguging against their own assumptions and ideas - not the actual person or facts as we know them[/quote]
@Midlifemusings There is nothing that says he will dominate the conversation and make it all about him.

Seriously? He is ALREADY making the night all about him, and that's before they've even gone on it. Re-read the OP's posts. It's clear as day to anyone reading that he will dominate everything. You are denying the facts and attempting to defend a narrative based on your denial of those actual facts.

Moodycow78 · 22/03/2022 05:11

@ClaryFairchild

Of course someone dressed as a woman will be using the women's toilets. I don't like to but can you imagine the abuse they will have if they enter that men's toilets?!
Shit I'm going to work I trousers today, does that mean I have to use the men's toilet's now ☹️ can you post a list of the clothing allowed in each toilet please. I always thought sex determined which facilities you use but apparently not!
Turningpurple · 22/03/2022 05:13

Pp said that biological males attack people, in toilets.

Then this man (he is a man as he hasn't come out yet, so that's the correct term) shouldn't be in be female toilets. He is a biological male and might abuse someone in the toilet?

The correct thing to do would be to call the police. Just like women have to.

Moodycow78 · 22/03/2022 05:17

Just say no to the no photo rule, tell him you're happy to come but can't promise it won't be all over social media the next day!

oakleaffy · 22/03/2022 05:30

It’ll ALL be about him.
Ghastly.

Don’t go.

He’ll be swimming against women next.

PinaColada123456 · 22/03/2022 05:32

@Moodycow78

Just say no to the no photo rule, tell him you're happy to come but can't promise it won't be all over social media the next day!
@Moodycow78 But by all of the OP's posts, they're clearly not happy for him to come, regardless of the photos.
EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 22/03/2022 05:41

@ClaryFairchild

Of course someone dressed as a woman will be using the women's toilets. I don't like to but can you imagine the abuse they will have if they enter that men's toilets?!
Grayson Perry uses the men's. Fionne Orlander tells the story of once being challenged and when FO clarified, the man who challenged gave a compliment and took it no further.
LaraDeSalle · 22/03/2022 05:44

I wouldn’t be putting up with that and would scrap the night. I don’t entertain this kind of lifestyle choice and would not be seen out with him.

PrincessNutella · 22/03/2022 05:46

men don't belong in women's bathrooms. Why should wearing a dress make a difference?

Flapjak · 22/03/2022 06:05

Women need to exclude/'avoid these male fetishists as soon as they start with trashing womens boundaries. I read a statistic yesterday from 2012 - 2020 women committed 468 rapes, rape in the uk only happens with penises.

Hello606 · 22/03/2022 06:15

I don’t understand how this can possibly bother you at all

BeHappy91818 · 22/03/2022 06:17

Tell him he can’t come.

BlueSlate · 22/03/2022 06:18

@ClaryFairchild

Of course someone dressed as a woman will be using the women's toilets. I don't like to but can you imagine the abuse they will have if they enter that men's toilets?!
It never happens.

And if it does, he can tell the police because there are laws against attacking/abusing people.

It's not fair to make women feel uncomfortable because transwomen are worried about violent men.

At least, that's women are always being told anyway...

Can you not just tell him.that you amd your friend have decided to revert to the original plan and are going alone?

Him intruding on your night and then wanting to make it all about himself? He's behaving like, well, like a man...

Turtletotem · 22/03/2022 06:24

The whole women's toilets situation reminds me of a night out I had about 25 years ago, it was a friends hen do and everyone was having a great time. I went to use the toilet and was sitting having a pee and just got a feeling I was being watched! I looked up and a man wearing a wig and make up etc was watching over the wall between the toilets so must've just got dressed to get into the loos to stand on the toilet perving 🤮
It was such a shock and still affects me now when using public toilets.
I'm not suggesting that about the OPs friend its just jolted a memory.