Trans athlete wins in female swimming race

[bonfireheart]

www.lbc.co.uk/news/female-swimmers-transgender-lia-thomas-podium-protest-atlanta-result/

Don't know how true this story is but wonder if the public reaction to stuff like this will become more common.

@greasyshoes

Why do we have women’s sport?

To promote women's participation in sport.

Very disingenuous of you. Sport is about more than participation - it's also about winning. Why do women have to lose out on the possibility of winning if males are allowed to compete alongside them?

"If so, we're doing them a terrible disservice. It might explain how many girls seem to support inclusion of trans women in women's sports."

I completely agree. It's depressing

@greasyshoes

However pretty much all trans women who are athletes will beat biological female athletes. It isn't an anomaly at all. Just the reality of being biologically male.

Are you suggesting that men are stronger than women?

Greasy, you do know that Buffy the Vampire Slayer is fiction, not a documentary, right?

If it makes no difference where are all the f2m's smashing it in men's swimming?

@Childrenofthestones

If it makes no difference where are all the f2m's smashing it in men's swimming?

Yes. And where are the FTMs running alongside Usain Bolt?

@greasyshoes

Lia is noticeably taller and broader than the other swimmers.

I'm a man. Plenty of women are taller and broader than me. I have no doubts that these women could swim faster than me. Biology is pretty diverse and there are extremes at both ends of the male and female bell curves.

There are also lots of men who are taller and broader than me. Should I have my own category in sports so I don't have to compete against tall men? What about basketball?

Bottom line? You’re not good enough to compete at an elite level in your own sex category.

Nor am I.

Deal with it and stop with the whataboutery.

This is about a fair field of competitors. Having Lia Thomas in this field is not fair.

The data on this website brings the differences between male and female athletes into sharp focus - comparing performance of elite females with the top school-age boys. Hardly any female Olympians would win a medal if competing against good schoolboys.
boysvswomen.com/#/

This approach to argumentation of "if I make myself say stupid enough things this will bamboozle my opponents" is a losing strategy. OK for certain parts of twitter but eventually you have to have a reality-based discussion. Like in a court or in a strict scientific context.

I' m a man. Plenty of women are taller and broader than me. I have no doubts that these women could swim faster than me. Biology is pretty diverse and there are extremes at both ends of the male and female bell curves.

OFFS another man pretending that just because they are a smaller than average male, that all elite male athletes have no advantage over female elite athletes.

Everyone wants to compete in the womens categories. Locally, FTM want to stay on the ladies teams when they transition or want to join the local ladies teams for a variety of sports and the MTF do too! Local clubs for contact sports for women will close as young women leave due to fear on the injuries they might sustain. The college MTF athletes will soon be filtering into elite national teams. There isn't as much money in womens sport as mens. If FTM could actually take on the men then I think there would be a mega outcry and sports bodies wouldn't be pushing inclusion. I wonder what clubs do about insurance? I could see contact sports lawsuits for injury a plenty in the future.

A transwoman competing in womens sports, is like me competing in small children sports.

There might be an 8 year old who could beat me, but realistically, I would beat those 8 year olds any day

@greasyshoes

Lia is noticeably taller and broader than the other swimmers.

I'm a man. Plenty of women are taller and broader than me. I have no doubts that these women could swim faster than me. Biology is pretty diverse and there are extremes at both ends of the male and female bell curves.

There are also lots of men who are taller and broader than me. Should I have my own category in sports so I don't have to compete against tall men? What about basketball?

Oh, go on with ye!

Very disingenuous of you. Sport is about more than participation - it's also about winning. Why do women have to lose out on the possibility of winning if males are allowed to compete alongside them?

Winning isn't the reason why women have their own category in sport. Even if we grant that men are stronger, faster, etc. etc. than women, there are still women's categories in sports in which men would have absolutely no advantage over women at all.

How could men have any biological advantage over women in darts or snooker, for example? And yet, there are women-only categories in darts and snooker.

"How could men have any biological advantage over women in darts or snooker, for example?"

LOL!

I haven’t RTFT but leaving this here for greasyshoes
It’s the NHS/WHO growth charts for newborn babies, most parents will be familiar with these. The graphs are different for the two sexes. Because sex matters. Even before puberty boys are - on average - bigger and stronger. And we all know this, and have always known this. FFS.

www.rcpch.ac.uk/resources/uk-who-growth-charts-0-4-years

Now Stop trolling.

Women have worked bloody hard to be allowed to participate in sports. We couldn’t run a marathon until 1983 as they thought our insides would drop out. If women don’t have their own category then we might as well have just one group called men - oh hang on we are nearly there already. It isn’t just about women participating I actually like watching female sports. I like women’s football. But we are not equal in size etc so please can men please stop trying to dismantle women’s sports.

[quote foodfiend]The data on this website brings the differences between male and female athletes into sharp focus - comparing performance of elite females with the top school-age boys. Hardly any female Olympians would win a medal if competing against good schoolboys.
boysvswomen.com/#/[/quote]
thanks for sharing this @foodfiend

The stance, the body shape, the walk are all male. The long hair is the only female bit there. This is why people don't want them to compete. A few drugs do not change man into a woman. You should only be able to compete with everything done, not a little part of it just enough to qualify as female for long enough to win.

@Liveliferun

I haven’t RTFT but leaving this here for greasyshoes It’s the NHS/WHO growth charts for newborn babies, most parents will be familiar with these. The graphs are different for the two sexes. Because sex matters. Even before puberty boys are - on average - bigger and stronger. And we all know this, and have always known this. FFS.

www.rcpch.ac.uk/resources/uk-who-growth-charts-0-4-years

Now Stop trolling.

Well said. There's been a trend recently for some posters to simply repeatedly deny obvious truths to a point beyond reason.

@greasyshoes

So where does this leave womens participation in contact sports then? Should women accept the increased risk of serious injury.. .

Oh look another wind up merchant, why do you all keep wasting your time replying to these fuckwits?

there are extremes at both ends of the male and female bell curves.

He knows there's a male and a female bell curve, he said so in his first daft post. He presumably knows they're significantly displaced from each other.

Says it all.

This is a parenting website greasyshoes. Many of the people you're addressing are parents - mothers and fathers. Of girls and boys.

Have you ever watched a PE lesson, been to games afternoon, attended a swimming gala, sports day?? Seen kids play???

Even if no-one tells you boys are stronger than girls, watching them for five seconds makes it blisteringly obvious.

@greasyshoes Just ask yourself how many male to female trans athletes. Lia never even broke the top 500 when competing on the men's team...but when competing as a female with about ten times the testosterone level of a biological female, suddenly (s)he wins. Hallelujah, it's a miracle!!