Trans issues - just sad and disappointed

[Chasingthebutterflies]

Don't know what I want to say really. Haven't properly formulated my thoughts. Just came on to talk about it. Feeling a bit sad.

I was texting a friend (a man) about the recent case of the woman raped by a man in a hospital and the hospital's denial that she couldn't have been raped because there was no man.

My friend's response - the media wants us to think that all trans men are rapists, demonising the trans community, it's disgusting, it'll be us gays next.

I'm sad because there was no concern for the woman, I'm sad because despite my trying to explain that my issue is simply people with penises wanting access to spaces that are for people with vaginas only. Nothing to do with whether they are trans or not (a biological woman who lives as a trans man still accesses a female single sex space). Because it's not a trans issue. It's a male issue. I'm sad because I don't want to have to lie to my DC and say that a man standing in front of me is a woman. I want to be able to say that he is a biological male who chooses to live as a woman. But I want to be able to say that without being labelled transphobic. Because I'm not. There's no judgment. But there is a desire for safeguarding.

Just sad. Feels bonkers. Feels like I'm living in a big game of pretend.

These things probably shouldn't really be discussed on text anyway, but it has just made me sad and concerned.

I'm agog at the posters that are saying, in all seriousness, that women can be rapists.
Only men with a penis rape, women do not have a penis, most transwomen have a penis. Some transmen might have something fashioned out of a roll of skin but they don't get an erection without a lot of faff and mechanics so unlikely to be raping anyone.

And these posters presumably cope with day to day life.

@RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie

I wasn't speaking about one case though.

Which begs the perennial question: how many women hurt in situations like this will be enough/too many for you?

1? Clearly not.

So how many more women must be raped in hospital, in prison, anywhere, by a man identifying as a woman before you will consider it a case worthy of thought?

I don't care how someone identifies. I don't care how many surgeries they have had or how much money they have spent in order to look less like the sex they were born as.

Humans can't change sex and I don't want men in women's spaces.

Of course the case is important. But it is also imo important to remind people that not all trans women are potential rapists.

But they are. In the same way as every other man is when it comes to safeguarding

I'd go so far as to argue that almost all trans women are not potential rapists.

Statistics will prove you wrong. Every transwomen is as likely to rape as any other man. And the % of transwomen in prison for sexual offences against women is higher than that of men who do not identify as women.

There are so very many threads here with all of the ONS MoJ etc data. Many of the regular posters keep those stats up to date on threads like It Never Happens or Break It Down For Me.

And if a man wants to rape women, he'll find a way, whatever 'safe spaces' there are

Ah well, we'll just do away with safeguarding altogether then. Men gonna rape....

@RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie

If anybody has decided to think I'm somehow anti-safeguarding or excusing rape, then you're clearly and deliberately choosing to misunderstand me.

My argument is against the people who seem to assume that all trans women are by their very nature dangerous. That attitude is as abhorrent to me, as the all men are potential rapists due to having a penis argument.

See you later, folks. Enjoy the sunshine.

I hope that whilst you are gone you ponder two things

1. Why so many posters misunderstood you in exactly the same way

1. Consider the information you have been given here that contradicts your thoughts.

Then come back and ask some questions. You'll find a lot if us here who started off as you have. We're still here, still talking, still learning.

I feel that the view that there are is only male and female and that you cannot move from one to another. I do not know why we have ended up in this situation where anything is possible. I do not believe all men are rapists. I believe that women have like men the right to their own wards in hospitals , their own communal toilets and changing rooms. This view I think is held by many - but I like many have been silenced due to the allocation of being "phobic" - no its not phobic its my view. The problem is that if we have now a society where the agenda is set by a minority group who are bullying in their tactics

Which hospital was it? Or has that info not been released? Because it reflects really badly on them.

My argument is against the people who seem to assume that all trans women are by their very nature dangerous. That attitude is as abhorrent to me, as the all men are potential rapists due to having a penis argument.

See that to me is just weird. No one views all men as rapists. Recognising that men as a group pose a risk, however small, isn't viewing all men as rapists - it's just recognising that there is a risk and trying to mitigate it. Same as requiring all teachers to be DBS checked isn't the same as viewing all teachers as sex abusers. It's just recognising that there is a risk and mitigating it. You wear a seat belt not because you don't trust your dp when they are driving (well I hope not!) but because there is a small risk of an accident and the belt mitigates that.

For those stating no women can rape.

The technical term would be assault by penetration. It can carry the same sentences as rape and considered very serious. The term was created due to the term rape defined in law not covering these types of assault which can be carried out by men or women.

Statistically men are more likely to commit sexual assault, but to say no women carry out a crime equivalent to rape is misleading.

@ChiefInspectorParker

No amount of harm to women (or children for that matter) is enough for those who want men to have access to women’s single-sex spaces.

A woman was raped while on a single sex hospital ward and the hospital said it didn’t happen because the rapist said he was a woman

If that doesn’t make your blood run cold there is something wrong with you

those of you who defend this with your ‘it’s one case’ bullshit, how many women raped in hospitals do you need to see before you will admit that this is utterly appalling?

Five? Ten? 50? 100? How many women being attacked would be enough for you?

Shame on you

Perfectly said!

Statistically men are more likely to commit sexual assault, but to say no women carry out a crime equivalent to rape is misleading

This matters how exactly? What does it change for safeguarding and single sex spaces? MEN commit 98% of all sex offenses. 98%. Regardless of any 'identity'

The minuscule % of females that sexually assault are the exception not the rule. Only men rape. With their penis.

Statistically men are more likely to commit sexual assault, but to say no women carry out a crime equivalent to rape is misleading.

Can you tell me what this specifically relates to this case where a male person (a man in old money) was allowed to access a previously single sex ward and rape a woman with his penis?

@ToCaden

For those stating no women can rape.

The technical term would be assault by penetration. It can carry the same sentences as rape and considered very serious. The term was created due to the term rape defined in law not covering these types of assault which can be carried out by men or women.

Statistically men are more likely to commit sexual assault, but to say no women carry out a crime equivalent to rape is misleading.

Nobody said that. We all recognise that sexual assault is equally as abhorrent and traumatic and can carry the same sentence.

But this thread is about the very specific crime of rape, which can only ever be carried out by a male. To say otherwise, or to imply women can also rape, is gaslighting and minimising.

@RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie

If that's the argument, then all women are potential shoplifters/stranglers/poisoners/abusers etc.

Enjoy the sunshine.

Do you think you've made a good point here? 🙈

Yes, that's how safeguarding works, assumes everyone is capable. You seem very keen to exempt transwomen from the rules that apply to other males though. Why is that?

Trans women suffer enormously from being forced into male only spaces, whether in prison, hospital or wherever

Women are suffering enormously from being forced to share what should be female only spaces with trans identified males. The examples of direct harm to women in prison, hospitals and refuges not to mention sports are coming thick and fast. And that's just the ones we hear about. Why should they be collateral damage? How many examples, how many damaged women and girls before enough is enough?

Quite Rainbowshit, it's pure MRA hatred of women.

It always surprises me how offended people get at the stats about sex offenders.
How do they read 98% of sex offenders are male but interpret it as 98% of males are sex offenders? Is it on purpose or am I missing something?

I see this has been moved too! My my the monitors have been busy reporting

Why has my thread been moved? Is this not something that we can Chat about? Is it a minority issue? Not something that affects mums? Are we allowed to say mums? Or should it now be "people who give birth to children"?

@ToCaden

For those stating no women can rape.

The technical term would be assault by penetration. It can carry the same sentences as rape and considered very serious. The term was created due to the term rape defined in law not covering these types of assault which can be carried out by men or women.

Statistically men are more likely to commit sexual assault, but to say no women carry out a crime equivalent to rape is misleading.

No it's not misleading. 98% of sexual crime is committed by men. NINETY EIGHT PERCENT

Why are you talking about 2%?

In my opinion, the media seems to treat trans-people the same way it treated gay people a couple of decades ago. Almost as if the media is now targeting trans-people as the new community to shit on because they know they won't get away with homophobia anymore.

I like to think in a couple more decades, transphobia will be seen as unacceptable as homophobia is now.

@Chasingthebutterflies

Why has my thread been moved? Is this not something that we can Chat about? Is it a minority issue? Not something that affects mums? Are we allowed to say mums? Or should it now be "people who give birth to children"?

Please report to MNHQ. This shouldn't be moved.

Oh my god, that shoplifting comment 🤣

Have you never wondered why shops have those mirrors and security guards and cctv and cut outs of police and security tags and detector things on the doors?

Also I presume that poster has the figures that show shoplifting is overwhelmingly a female crime? I have no idea myself so it’s good to learn something.

I like to think in a couple more decades, transphobia will be seen as unacceptable as homophobia is now

I think most people think that both are unacceptable