Starmer on what a woman is, and GRA reform

[ResisterRex]

In The Times:

Trans women are women, says Keir Starmer in call for legal reform

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/75ddf3d0-a176-11ec-b38e-10b333e9179b?shareToken=2a3aa1b4f35de5d5a23b0166178270f6

"Asked to define a woman, Starmer replied: “A woman is a female adult, and in addition to that trans women are women, and that is not just my view — that is actually the law. It has been the law through the combined effects of the 2004 [Gender Recognition] Act and the 2010 [Equality] Act. So that’s my view. It also happens to be the law in the United Kingdom.”

The Labour leader called for reforms of the Gender Recognition Act, under which people diagnosed with gender dysphoria who have lived in their acquired gender for at least two years can apply to be legally recognised.

“The process that people have to go through does need to be looked at,” he told The Times. “If you talk to anybody who’s been through the process there’s a real issue about respect and dignity.”"

In addition:

He called for a “more considered, respectful, tolerant debate about these issues”. Starmer added: “I don’t think it furthers the interests of anybody to continue the debate in the way that it’s been going on now for some time.”

[quote DomesticatedZombie]Suzanne Moore: suzannemoore.substack.com/p/i-am-a-dinosaur-hear-me-roar[/quote]
“Hoarding all my rights up my dinosaur wazoo”. I love Suzanne.

@KittenKong

Jesus - he’s never applied for a disabled parking pass then has he? I’ve just done one for my MIL - 8 sections, with up to 3 pages of typewritten explanations basically begging for a pass. Then a phone call from someone asking allsorts of probing questions. She’s pushing 80, partially deaf, arthritis up and down, plus loads of other health issues. It took from just after new year until last week to get it approved.

And he wants to discuss inhumane and undignified process???

Game on sonny…

Amen to that.

Ditto PIP.

Ditto reasonable adjustments and work.

Ditto every other damn thing related to disability.

Are we whinging that we want the right to Self ID into disability? No. Would it get us anywhere if we did? Also no.

The misogyny of trans activism is unmissable yet Jollyon Mourn to Billy Bragg to Owen Jones to Michael Cashman and many so -called comedians - compile your own list - believe themselves to be on the right side of history, possibly because they don’t know much about history.

No I think its because they dont know much about rights.

*Amen to that.

Ditto PIP.

Ditto reasonable adjustments and work.

Ditto every other damn thing related to disability.

Are we whinging that we want the right to Self ID into disability? No. Would it get us anywhere if we did? Also no.*

CAMHs assessment for ASD and ADHD for my child, still on the waiting list since 2016. and from talking to others in the area thats not unusual. but oh diddums cant have people waiting 2 years for a GRC thats inhumane!

Oh yeah, how could I forget the joy of waiting for CAMHS? Also the marathon effort to secure EHCPs etc.

Yes, I imagine Starmer has never actually had to experience his psychotic 11-year-old, in the process of starving himself to death, both attacking the CAMHS emergency visitor and screaming at the CAMHS panel convened to work out whether there was, actually, any help available. And I was glad he did, because it meant we actually did get help. But to get that help my poor child, after months of struggle, had to give up all respect and dignity. So don't talk to me about most oppressed.

The process of trying to get medical support for very heavy periods is pretty fucking undignified and can take a decade or more. It would be awesome if Starmer decided to put some effort into making that less undignified for women.

Misiecle

“Hoarding all my rights up my dinosaur wazoo”. I love Suzanne.

It's another T shirt slogan.

Well he can jog on frankly.

I wrote to my MP before the GRA debate and got the same nonsense back - TWAW but also we protect single sex spaces but TW can access these - well how the fuck does that work? You know most of these jokers still have their dicks? Do you think we don’t know that?

Getting really fucked off now.

I’ve got a work deadline then I’m going to devote the whole of next week writing a letter to my MP, Keir and the rest of these reality denying fuckwits.

Very disappointed and disillusioned.

Women’s rights are being eroded steadily.

Men who become women are more important than biological women. Men are always first.

He said single sex spaces still protected but if he considers trans women to be actual women then is he saying they can access women only spaces?

So I see the met police have a new initiative where you can report if you feel unsafe on the street. I want to have a look. Someone doesn’t will know the equality act (and they wonder why we don’t feel safe).

@KittenKong

So I see the met police have a new initiative where you can report if you feel unsafe on the street. I want to have a look. Someone doesn’t will know the equality act (and they wonder why we don’t feel safe).

lodge a complaint sex is a protected characteristic in law you would expect the police to be aware of that.

@GoodnessTruthBeauty

So I suppose Labour have no interest in winning a national election ever again?

No I really dont think they do.

In my local paper today is a feature on a flasher that goes out in flip flops, no underwear and a miniskirt. Can they just pop into the women's changing room if they feel the need?

Greens, LibDems are on the bus as well. I would dislike voting for the Tories, some of whom are on the bus and on top of which are hugely incompetent.

Why are transmen not speaking about this issue? or gay men apart from Matthew Parris? The majority of my gay friends find it offensive they are not recognised in the argument but should speak up.

Buck Angel and Scot Newgent are telling their heads off. Not sure if any UK based ones though.

@Tillsforthrills

He said single sex spaces still protected but if he considers trans women to be actual women then is he saying they can access women only spaces?

Yep.

Women (adult human females) will have single sex spaces.

Women (adult human men who choose to identify themselves as women) have free access to those spaces, which are the spaces they wish to be in with the adult human females for their own reasons.

The fact that this means that these are mixed sex spaces and not single sex spaces (because the minute a male person enters, it stops being a single sex space) and that this excludes some females from the women's space and therefore any space so that male people can take their preferred best life choice in the moment from all the spaces, and that this is as sexist as all hell as well as making a total mockery of calling it 'inclusive' appears to be something that neither Starmer nor any other politician is capable of getting their little heads around.

A bunch of silly mummies? Well we appear to be able to get that. Odd isn't it?

What I REALLY don't understand is how massively out of step the politicians are on this front. You'd think, given the rather obviously enormous importance of a female vote, that they'd want to at least pretend to give a fuck, no? Do they not read the papers, the comments, social media? Do they not have focus groups or some means of assessing how people feel on the issue?

Why in the ever loving fuck do they keep pushing utterly ridiculous nonsense like 'males are females' when they must on some level know how unhinged and ludicrous it makes them look? Even as we hear from some trans activists that 'nobody really believes transwomen are literally female' we have the leader of the opposition breenging in to say just that! It's wild. Absolutely wild.

@crosstalk

Greens, LibDems are on the bus as well. I would dislike voting for the Tories, some of whom are on the bus and on top of which are hugely incompetent.

Why are transmen not speaking about this issue? or gay men apart from Matthew Parris? The majority of my gay friends find it offensive they are not recognised in the argument but should speak up.

James Morton is a trans man who's advising the Scottish government on all matters rainbow. It's amazing, I'm not sure what Jame's background is, but James must have expertise in prisons, health, equality, education and academia because it appears that James has consulted on all of those areas.

What a trooper.

It means I get left with a definite impression whether or not Starmer and co intend it:

The impression I have, since this is sexist, exclusionary, unfair, unhelpful, disregarding of any issues or needs females have,

Is that what male people want, they get. And female people just stop mattering when male people want stuff.

Which really means its a waste of time insisting that these male people are truly being perceived as women. They are not. They are very definitely being perceived as something different to and much more important than an adult human female. And no, it's not context dependent, and it's not complicated.

We appear to be living in a time where there's a lot of shy but committed male supremacists.

@Artichokeleaves

It means I get left with a definite impression whether or not Starmer and co intend it:

The impression I have, since this is sexist, exclusionary, unfair, unhelpful, disregarding of any issues or needs females have,

Is that what male people want, they get. And female people just stop mattering when male people want stuff.

Which really means its a waste of time insisting that these male people are truly being perceived as women. They are not. They are very definitely being perceived as something different to and much more important than an adult human female. And no, it's not context dependent, and it's not complicated.

We appear to be living in a time where there's a lot of shy but committed male supremacists.

I agree.

What Starmer is really saying here is that he knows women are adult human females but if men want something they must be given it and women must hand it over because to not do so is mean and selfish.

This person has a daughter - primary school aged i think. How can he look her in the eye and say that if any male days they are entitled to be on the same sports team, sleep in the same dorm in a residential trip, or change and shower in the same facilities became they ‘feel’ it?

But then I guess money is a great buffer - he can choose the facilities his daughter will use, he can choose to send her to a particular doctor, camp, school.

Bye labour