Starmer on what a woman is, and GRA reform

[ResisterRex]

In The Times:

Trans women are women, says Keir Starmer in call for legal reform

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/75ddf3d0-a176-11ec-b38e-10b333e9179b?shareToken=2a3aa1b4f35de5d5a23b0166178270f6

"Asked to define a woman, Starmer replied: “A woman is a female adult, and in addition to that trans women are women, and that is not just my view — that is actually the law. It has been the law through the combined effects of the 2004 [Gender Recognition] Act and the 2010 [Equality] Act. So that’s my view. It also happens to be the law in the United Kingdom.”

The Labour leader called for reforms of the Gender Recognition Act, under which people diagnosed with gender dysphoria who have lived in their acquired gender for at least two years can apply to be legally recognised.

“The process that people have to go through does need to be looked at,” he told The Times. “If you talk to anybody who’s been through the process there’s a real issue about respect and dignity.”"

In addition:

He called for a “more considered, respectful, tolerant debate about these issues”. Starmer added: “I don’t think it furthers the interests of anybody to continue the debate in the way that it’s been going on now for some time.”

At least he let us know in good time for the local elections. If a Labour council will not ensure funding for single sex services where they are needed, they can jog on.

I see Labour are still basing their policies on Twitter likes. Clearly I was wrong to hope they'd learnt their lesson on that last time.

I'm done with Labour, having been a member most of my adult life. I left the party last year after the car crash with Lammy and 'dinosaurs'. I keep getting begging letters asking me to rejoin, but I just can't while they peddle this crap. I'd hoped for a bit of sanity from Starmer, but clearly not.

bellinisurge, why do you think the Tories winning the next election would be awful for gays and lesbians?
It was a Tory MP (Matthew Paris) who co-founded Stonewall, back in the days when it was a wonderful organisation for gay rights, before it was hijacked by the TRAs.

I just don't get this. Surely it's simple;

A woman is an adult female human.
A man is an adult human male.
A trans woman is and adult male who identifies as a woman
A trans man is an adult female who identifies as a man

4 clearly distinct categories there. And no amount of surgical process or otherwise will alter this.

It's been understood for millennia that biology of species are male and female. We cannot reproduce without these 2 clear categories. Trans rights are important, of course, and provisions should be made, but separate to women's rights. I won't vote for anybody that can't recognise basic fact.

I am also heartened by the fact that much as the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful people but have their good name tarnished by a small but loud proportion of extremists, so too are most trans people happily going about their lives but being caught up in a circus led by a loud minority.

Brilliant,

Now get him to define ‘trans women’

I’ve just seen this on Twitter. It’s so depressing. Also cannot believe it’s this that’s so important when he was on visit about the war 🤷🏻‍♀️

@WouldBeGood

I’ve just seen this on Twitter. It’s so depressing. Also cannot believe it’s this that’s so important when he was on visit about the war 🤷🏻‍♀️

Yeah - while the Ukrainian people are being so unbelievably brave because they have no other choice, while some Russian people are protesting against the invasion knowing that can get you 15 years prison...Starmer doesn't even have the courage to say 'men aren't women'.

As pp said we can't vote Labour, we can't vote Green and I won't vote Conservative so I am between a rock and a hard place. Is it too much to ask for just a common sense approach to this and all the other problems this country is experiencing; well yes of course it is. Government is captured at every point; bullied, persuaded, paid to forget the basic requirements of the everyday human.

I saw a screenshot of this on twitter and through that Mole had made it up for a giggle.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10604829/Keir-Starmer-calls-respectful-debate-controversial-issue.html

What is wrong with these people? What?

Livelifeinthebuslane
But he also said that he believes in safe spaces for women and the Equality Act is right. So transwomen are women ... except when they're not.

That's not quite what he said is it?

Scottish government has proposed changes { reformed as in change to a better system of self identify to the legal class woman } that would not require a medical diagnosis.

The law defines woman as child or adult who is female and man as child or adult who is male.

So first he has subtlety removed children from the discussions that the reader may have.

He also desexed trans women from man (male) to trans child or trans adult who is female.

The reader needs to adjust the meaning of { woman } to his definition to read what he is quoted as saying { woman is a female adult, and in addition to that some males trans women are women }

Asked about the Scottish government’s plans, Starmer replied:
"A woman is a female adult, and in addition to that trans women are women, and that is not just my view — that is actually the law. It has been the law through the combined effects of the 2004 [Gender Recognition] Act and the 2010 [Equality] Act. So that’s my view. It also happens to be the law in the United Kingdom."
"The Gender Recognition Act needs to be reformed { as in change to a better system of self identify to the legal class woman } . And I believe in safe spaces for women { female and some males, child or adult } — I’m very clear about those too. I think the 2004 act needs to be reformed { to self ID?? }, I think the 2010 act, the Equality Act, which does provide for safe spaces for women { female and some males, child or adult } is right. And therefore I’m very straightforward about this.”

Politics is word craft and ability to spin the message.

@tabbycatstripy

And when Starmer says 'safe spaces for women', what he means is 'safe spaces for women and anyone who says they're a woman'. He's not a friend to women.

This. He believes women should have sage spaces, AND he believes trans.women should be able to access those spaces, because they aren't men, they are women, because magic words? Or something.

Anyway, supporting safe spaces for women is meaningless if men can enter those safe spaces at will.

Labour are not going to turn away from this any time soon.

It's baffling to me how hecan support safe spaces for women but his definition of woman includes some men. How can he not see that's an issue?
I once heard him described as a 'brilliant man ' by someone who knows him. He's not being very 'brilliant' with that flaw in his logic IMO.

Thank goodness for Rosie Duffield and her like.

'It's baffling to me how he can support safe spaces for women but his definition of woman includes some men.'

Because to him, they're not men. He has no objective definitions in this discussion. Not of men or women, not of male or female. He is a slave to bad laws and has lost the capacity to make a reasonable judgment about whether those laws have a firm basis in fact.

He's lost the plot and flushed any credibility he might have had down the toilet, his choice. I can only snigger now when he's mentioned. Funny: Boris Johnson and the UK government suddenly somehow seem to have a great reputation on the international stage and poor silly little Keir pipes up that he thinks men are women. Do Labour shills still keep trying to say he's clever? So much for the recent activists' wacky attempt to position him as the next prime minister or whatever their instructions were.

I’ve just had the conservatives canvassing (local elections coming up). Nice man, listened, answered my questions, told me exactly what was happening with some local problem issues we’ve been having, asked what I wanted and what my main worries were. So fine - he knows what sex is and the importance of women only spaces etc.

I am just waiting for Labour or Lib Dems to show their faces at my door. Hell we even have a green. Hold help them.

Actually, if silly sausage Keir thinks transwomen are actually women (of course he's ignoring transmen, we all know why) - does that mean he'll get rid of the EA2010 protected characteristic of gender reassignment because it will be totally redundant? That's ... bold!

Oh and there are loads of Labourites on his feed that are on the side of Russia and how dare he support Ukraine.

They are just mad.

No, Keir. You do not get to tell us what constitutes being a women. Males who identify as women are not a subset of our sex class. How dare you, a privileged male, think you can tell us who and what is included under the term that defines half of the world. Woman is not yours to give away. It belongs to Women: adult human females.

Men, women and children are being slaughtered in Ukraine, the world is under the worst threat to humanity for the past 40 years and yet this is what you think the voters will love. None so blind as those that refuse to see.

I will never vote for Labour again.

Keir is a man.

He is never going to get it.

And that's what hell not be gettin gmy vote.

Neither will the Tories though.

Nor the greens or Libdems.

I just won't bother, I can't support any of them.

Heard two people talking about this this week - Keir Starmer and Kemi Badenoch. Going to have to vote Tory. I'm a natural Labour voter on economic grounds but this is too important to just spoil my ballot. I've written to Keir this morning to tell him this and I sent a copy to Kemi.

I will not come back to Labour at the next election. I stopped voting Labour when Corbyn was in charge and I planned to start again with Starmer. I've voted Labour since 1987.
I could forgive the "embrace Brexit " shit. But I can't forgive this.

I can only assume he doesn't want to actually win an election. I can see why - Covid still hanging around, fall out from Brexit, a war being waged by Russia and an energy crisis.

This is a nice easy shortcut to ensure all that remains someone else's problem whilst you just heckle from the sidelines.

I wonder what will happen down the line if they ever get another Blair like leader who is serious about winning?