Starmer on what a woman is, and GRA reform

[ResisterRex]

In The Times:

Trans women are women, says Keir Starmer in call for legal reform

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/75ddf3d0-a176-11ec-b38e-10b333e9179b?shareToken=2a3aa1b4f35de5d5a23b0166178270f6

"Asked to define a woman, Starmer replied: “A woman is a female adult, and in addition to that trans women are women, and that is not just my view — that is actually the law. It has been the law through the combined effects of the 2004 [Gender Recognition] Act and the 2010 [Equality] Act. So that’s my view. It also happens to be the law in the United Kingdom.”

The Labour leader called for reforms of the Gender Recognition Act, under which people diagnosed with gender dysphoria who have lived in their acquired gender for at least two years can apply to be legally recognised.

“The process that people have to go through does need to be looked at,” he told The Times. “If you talk to anybody who’s been through the process there’s a real issue about respect and dignity.”"

In addition:

He called for a “more considered, respectful, tolerant debate about these issues”. Starmer added: “I don’t think it furthers the interests of anybody to continue the debate in the way that it’s been going on now for some time.”

Starmer added: “I don’t think it furthers the interests of anybody to continue the debate in the way that it’s been going on now for some time

It doesn't further the interests of women and girls????

Listen women! You've been banging on for some time about this now so isn't it about time that you shut the fuck up about your rights?!

I can’t vote for Labour anymore.

There has been and will also be corruption in governments, the rich getting richer and politicians lying. Its happened for decades and will go on to happen for decades to come so I won't always priortise that as a reason not to vote for a party. What I won't accept is this absolute bs that is happening where we no longer have safe spaces etc. No way will I vote for a party that denies this basic right, rights that women fought so hard for. After all the leaders of these parties are men! Surprise suprise.

I want a world where women are women and recgonised as such over and above anything else.

@EarthSight

Starmer added: “I don’t think it furthers the interests of anybody to continue the debate in the way that it’s been going on now for some time

It doesn't further the interests of women and girls????

Listen women! You've been banging on for some time about this now so isn't it about time that you shut the fuck up about your rights?!

It's just a politer version of what that idiot youtuber said to JKR. "Women shut up and start apologising".

Why can't he say;
Biological women are women
Transwomen are transwomen
Biological men are men
Transmen are transmen
There are some people who have differences of sexual development.;these need to be considered on a case by case basis.
Everyone is worthy of respect and safe spaces.
I would be happy with that.

And I don't know who to vote for any more.

“A woman is a female adult, and in addition to that trans women are women”
If he’d said this in his first year as a law student, he would rightly have been dragged to the front of the seminar room and mercilessly mocked by his tutor. It’s garbage. It would be garbage in a philosophy or debate society, let alone in a legal context.

Wow. A question all about women and an answer all about men. Who could’ve guessed?

It's also not helpful for young gender confused people who are being sold the lie.

Starmer’s view on this was a big topic of discussion at the party conference last year. Lots of activists muttering in corners about how they were GC but afraid of saying so openly in branch or constituency meetings because there was always one TWAW person who would try to get them expelled if they did.

Anyway, the consensus seemed to be (and it’s a small world where a lot of people are pretty well-informed about what’s going on) that the real problem is that Starmer has no strong opinion of his own on this. He therefore looks to his advisors to tell him what line to adopt, and they do not speak with one voice (some older women who know the score, and some TRAs, mostly gay males in their 30s).

I don’t think that’s changed. Hence we get a smorgasbord of “adult human female” and “TWAW”, combined with what I felt was a pretty underpowered response. Someone who cares passionately on either side would have more to say about it than this and more appreciation of what arguments the other side might raise. I sense that he wants to shut down the discussion, not just because it’s difficult, but because he is not interested, doesn’t think it’s a big deal and consequently hasn’t thought about it much.

Anyway just my two pen’oth. I joined in the hope that he was GC but not willing to rock the boat until the time was right. I increasingly doubt that, and if I’m right that he thinks it’s a fringe issue, that’s a piss poor approach. Can’t see I’ll last another year as a member TBH.

Argh. The state of it. I can’t believe he took so long to come out with something so ridiculous.

And therefore I’m very straightforward about this.”
I laughed out loud when I came to that bit so thank you, Sir Keir, for that at least.

I am also very straightforward about it: if this is the best they can do, I will not be voting Labour.

Are they all being paid for this? Labour, SNP, etc? The Greens, okay I can maybe see them being this batshit for free, but the bigger mainstream parties...?

So, there has really been no change. At all. And he makes a statement about who he think is a woman then makes it seem like he is supporting single sex spaces but is not really. Because he doesn’t define those.

His And I believe in safe spaces for women — I’m very clear about those too. is meaningless unless he defines what those ‘safe spaces’ are.

His statement was carefully crafted political speak.

So no change at all.

I wouldn’t trust him at all.

The Mail has picked this up

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10604829/Keir-Starmer-calls-respectful-debate-controversial-issue.html

The comments don't hold back

Presumably we've all got to start asking for definitions.
What's the difference between a woman and a transwoman?
Define a single sex space?
Define"living as a woman"

Can you imagine the contradictory, meaningless babble advice going out to candidates for them to answer these questions from exasperated voters

And most importantly - as the Labour party support self ID, how does that impact on the definition of single sex sport, refuges, hospital wards etc?

There was this comment under the Mail’s article.

My6 year daughter was in tears the other night. We were out as a family in a restaurant and after going to the toilet with her mother she witnessed a big burly male dressed in a blouse and skirt emerging from the toilet cubicle adjusting his underclothes while one testicle was still visible to see. My daughter was very distressed what about her rights kier

Has any women on this thread come out of the loo adjusting their clothes in such a way that their labia would be on display? As in door open so everyone can see?

A woman is a female adult, and in addition to that trans women are women”

A woman is a female adult of or denoting the sex who bears eggs, and a man who is male adult of or denoting the sex who produce sperm, is also a female adult of or denoting the sex who bears eggs.

It's gobbledygook.

He's using the word one and two entirely different meanings.

And he cannot provide a workable meaning for its second use.

Quite apart from anything else, not having a GRC is absolutely no barrier to men accessing women safe spaces.

Does he intend to make it one?

“The process that people have to go through does need to be looked at,” he told The Times. “If you talk to anybody who’s been through the process there’s a real issue about respect and dignity.”"

Ffs. Instead of listening to TRAs, why doesn't he just read what the process is.

A diagnosis of gender dysphoria, and some paperwork showing you have a female name.

That's it.

For the love of God, what is disrespectful and undignified about any of that??

I'm sick of blokes like him declaring that men are also women, and why don't we all just be kinder. And by 'all' they mean women (the vagina owning kind), and by 'be kinder', they mean shut the fuck up.

It's alright for him. He doesn't have to suffer the consequences of this bollocks, and because he's very wealthy, it's unlikely his wife or daughter(s) will either. Happy to throw other vulnerable, less fortunate women and girls under the bus though.

He's trying to throw us crumbs by saying he thinks women should be allowed safe spaces, but he doesn't mean it at all if he thinks adult males are also women.

Anyway, the consensus seemed to be (and it’s a small world where a lot of people are pretty well-informed about what’s going on) that the real problem is that Starmer has no strong opinion of his own on this. He therefore looks to his advisors to tell him what line to adopt, and they do not speak with one voice (some older women who know the score, and some TRAs, mostly gay males in their 30s).

That's really interesting. So he capitulates to men rather than listen to women who this actually affects. It gets worse...

Does anyone know the sex ratio of Labour a party members these days..?I can only imagine...

If you talk to anybody who’s been through the process there’s a real issue about respect and dignity.”"

But the issues of respect for female needs, equality, accessibility, inclusion, hearing their voices and accounts, considering the dignity of females being required to get undressed in front of people they perceive as males and to hell with their feelings?

Starmer, you don't give a toss for 'privacy' or 'dignity' as values at all, your hypocrisy is quite staggering. All you're interested in is that male people get what they want and stuff everyone in their path.

It amazes me that so many politicians are so terribly concerned about the indignity and lack of respect inherent in the process of getting a GRC. Concern for sick and disabled people going through the undignified and disrespectful application for PIP? Hmm, not so much!