Starmer on what a woman is, and GRA reform

[ResisterRex]

In The Times:

Trans women are women, says Keir Starmer in call for legal reform

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/75ddf3d0-a176-11ec-b38e-10b333e9179b?shareToken=2a3aa1b4f35de5d5a23b0166178270f6

"Asked to define a woman, Starmer replied: “A woman is a female adult, and in addition to that trans women are women, and that is not just my view — that is actually the law. It has been the law through the combined effects of the 2004 [Gender Recognition] Act and the 2010 [Equality] Act. So that’s my view. It also happens to be the law in the United Kingdom.”

The Labour leader called for reforms of the Gender Recognition Act, under which people diagnosed with gender dysphoria who have lived in their acquired gender for at least two years can apply to be legally recognised.

“The process that people have to go through does need to be looked at,” he told The Times. “If you talk to anybody who’s been through the process there’s a real issue about respect and dignity.”"

In addition:

He called for a “more considered, respectful, tolerant debate about these issues”. Starmer added: “I don’t think it furthers the interests of anybody to continue the debate in the way that it’s been going on now for some time.”

The insight into party conference is interesting. So it was a big topic about which he has "no view"? That is staggering.

And now, his view is "shut up and be kind, and let me handle this I'm a lawyer dontcha know".

Well, as a lawyer, and as former head of DPP (as he never tires of reminding us at every chance) he should know that questions like:

• what are the consequences?
• what's the evidence?
• how does this interact with other legislation and if so, which? How?

Should be being asked. If he is genuinely that cut off from the party faithful then one wonders if the entire LP isn't held together with sticking plasters.

How are people whispering in corners at party conference in case they're reported and kicked out? Was this the LP conference in 2021, or from another Land and time?!

I very much doubt he doesn't know and he doesn't have views. What this reveals is that he doesn't care about women, or the unfolding child abuse scandal. He should be nowhere near no10.

@ripx4nutmeg on twitter has put together this handy thread:

Here's a thread of just some of the statements Labour Party politicians have made recently when asked about women's rights and spaces against the backdrop of an increasing number of males who identify as women. First up, Sir Keir Starmer

twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1442783035389325313?s=20&t=8A8p4wIKIOd_6-trQAsnrg

@Alltheprettyseahorses

Anyway, the consensus seemed to be (and it’s a small world where a lot of people are pretty well-informed about what’s going on) that the real problem is that Starmer has no strong opinion of his own on this. He therefore looks to his advisors to tell him what line to adopt, and they do not speak with one voice (some older women who know the score, and some TRAs, mostly gay males in their 30s).

That's really interesting. So he capitulates to men rather than listen to women who this actually affects. It gets worse...

I didn’t read this Times interview as capitulation to the men who tell him one thing, rather that he was trying to ride both horses in circs where he has no strong view of his own.

He’s been advised by Deborah Mattinson for some time, since about June last year. I don’t know what her personal views are on these issues but I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s recently done some research indicating unrestricted self-ID and it being wrong to say only women have a cervix is a stinker with most voters. That might explain why Streeting was trying out a new line the other week (albeit not successfully).

And yes this was 2021. My own central London CLP is wall to wall vocal TRAs. I went to conference thinking nobody would speak about it and nobody would express a GC view if they did. I was surprised by how many did, though not at all surprised by the culture of fear. Which is well-founded - didn’t someone recently tweet a charge sheet of allegedly transphobic tweets leading to their suspension? They immediately left so they could discuss it, whereupon a “whoops sorry this was a total mistake” letter was generated.

@bellinisurge

The Tories will use this at the next election and, despite being a bunch of criminally incompetent shites, they will win it. It is their last chance. And the fall out for LGB people, for gender non-conforming people and people uncomfortable with their birth sex , will be terrible.

And as a former Labour voter who still voted Labour 2017 & spoilt my vote last election I’m at the point where I’ll be volunteering to deliver leaflets for Conservatives in a marginal seat next election.

I despise almost everything about their policies but I’m not prepared to sell out women’s lives and dignity to Labour

@OvaHere

I can only assume he doesn't want to actually win an election. I can see why - Covid still hanging around, fall out from Brexit, a war being waged by Russia and an energy crisis.

This is a nice easy shortcut to ensure all that remains someone else's problem whilst you just heckle from the sidelines.

I wonder what will happen down the line if they ever get another Blair like leader who is serious about winning?

Well it does look that way.

@screamingmeme that's a brilliant handy link, thanks! Might quote it in the letter I'm currently penning to my Labour MP.

When I saw what KS said I laughed out loud at the absurdity. But now I've realised it's no laughing matter - Labour are simply not providing for those who desperately want an alternative to our present Government. I'm not sure why I'm writing to our MP - his replies in the past have been dismissive and condescending. Perhaps I'll just say congratulations, your party is finished. Slow hand clap for you and the lads at Labour HQ.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4360464-Labours-batshit-opinions-on-womens-rights

A thread I started during conference season, I suppose it needs updating 😅

I know we’re a way off an election but I’ve found the marginal seat I’ll be volunteering to leaflet for the Conservatives next election (assuming Labour don’t get a Leader with a backbone who is prepared to protect women’s rights in the mean time)

www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/conservative

I can only assume he doesn't want to actually win an election. I can see why - Covid still hanging around, fall out from Brexit, a war being waged by Russia and an energy crisis.

Or he wants to make it easier for all men to follow women and girls into changing rooms and toilets. How many men are voyeurs? It could probably swing an election.

I can imagine them coming up with that statement and thinking 'yes! That's it! That's the statement! It's got Adult Human Female in there to appease the pesky GCs but then we also get in TWAW and make a vague reference to the GRA. Perfect!'

Fucking idiots.

What he's actual said is a woman can be female or male, and the idiot thinks he's crushed it.

He's either stupid or thinks we are.

JKR has tweeted. 1st one has a link to the Surrey PCC story

I don’t think our politicians have the slightest idea how much anger is building among women from all walks of life at the attempts to threaten and intimidate them out of speaking publicly about their own rights, their own bodies and their own lives. 1/3

Among the thousands of letters and emails I’ve received are disillusioned members of Labour, the Greens, the Lib Dems and the SNP. Women are scared, outraged and angry at the deaf ear turned to their well-founded concerns. But women are organising. 2/3

Now
@Keir_Starmer
publicly misrepresents equalities law, in yet another indication that the Labour Party can no longer be counted on to defend women’s rights. But I repeat: women are organising across party lines, and their resolve and their anger are growing. 3/3

He is being straightforward about this.

His position is clear Woman are females and ANY man who wishes to identify as a woman.

Single sex spaces will be available to anyone defined as a woman under either of those definitions under any reformed laws that the Labour Party wishes to push through.

This is what is happening in the US democratic party. The left has lost it's way and is revealing itself to be deeply misogynistic and frankly undemocratic.

Sir Keir Starmer is a VERY intelligent man. He knows what the result will be of this and has decided that women don't matter to him.

A women's equality-focused party (in place of the utterly fucking useless Women's Equality Party) with JKR at its head would be a dream come true.

@MrsOvertonsWindow

Presumably we've all got to start asking for definitions. What's the difference between a woman and a transwoman? Define a single sex space? Define"living as a woman"

Can you imagine the contradictory, meaningless babble advice going out to candidates for them to answer these questions from exasperated voters

He called for "a tolerant debate about these issues" - he should clarify which issues he means.

What are we allowed to debate?

What situations can he envisage which might need debating?

JKR is politely and eloquently taking no prisoners. Sleeves rolled up and On It.

Just another example of him saying what he thinks people want to hear, or the opposite of what is bloody obvious.

I wouldn't vote labour in a million years while they have so little clue

He thinks this is some minority issue where you can cut and paste the bits you like and nobody will really care. 51% of the UK population are women. As with Brexit, a slim majority is still a majority. And for every handmaiden woman there is a father, brother, boyfriend, partner, common sense dick-haver who will not let this mealy mouthed crap stand.

I still find it hard to believe. That we have reached a point where top politicians are prepared to say the blatantly absurd.

Not just lies, they've all always done that.

But something so illogical and absurd yet fits an ideology and Keir Starmer will say it.

They think they've found a nice get out to the question.
Women are adult females.
AndTrans women are women

Please everyone right?

Except it's obvious that by that logic some people with a penis are adult females.

Do they think we can't follow simple logic?

Some people with a penis are women.

We must protect spaces for women.

Those with penis's and vaginas presumably?

I think the only solution is to start describing people by their genitals in all discussion.
It becomes very obvious what's being said then.

We want safe spaces for people with vaginas.

Presumably we've all got to start asking for definitions.
What's the difference between a woman and a transwoman?

He's told us the difference - woman are female, but males get to be woman too. What we need him to say out loud is what is the difference between a man and a trans woman.

If he wants to preserve the GRA, he needs to explain to the electorate exactly the process needed for any man to become a woman. That's the bit politicians want to keep secret.

It's such bullshit. Here is a man who wants to reform the GRA so that any man can legally 'change gender'.

The same GRA that he refers to when discussing 'what a woman is'.

So he is saying that a woman is an adult human female, and any man who decides to identify as a woman.

And he reckons this is some kind of 'gotcha, how can you argue with this?'

1/10 for effort Keir. Just admit you don't give a shit about women.

So

"Asked to define a woman, Starmer replied: “A woman is a female adult, and in addition to that trans women are women, and that is not just my view — that is actually the law."

Meanwhile the Oxford Dictionary defines a female as: "belonging to the sex that can lay eggs or give birth to babies".

So by Starmers definition a woman can be both male and female. One simple solution to avoid confusion would be to get rid entirely of the words "man / men and woman/ women" and replace them with "male / males and female/ females ".

@MalagaNights

I still find it hard to believe. That we have reached a point where top politicians are prepared to say the blatantly absurd.

Not just lies, they've all always done that.

But something so illogical and absurd yet fits an ideology and Keir Starmer will say it.

They think they've found a nice get out to the question.
Women are adult females.
AndTrans women are women

Please everyone right?

Except it's obvious that by that logic some people with a penis are adult females.

Do they think we can't follow simple logic?

100% this.