Starmer on what a woman is, and GRA reform

[ResisterRex]

In The Times:

Trans women are women, says Keir Starmer in call for legal reform

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/75ddf3d0-a176-11ec-b38e-10b333e9179b?shareToken=2a3aa1b4f35de5d5a23b0166178270f6

"Asked to define a woman, Starmer replied: “A woman is a female adult, and in addition to that trans women are women, and that is not just my view — that is actually the law. It has been the law through the combined effects of the 2004 [Gender Recognition] Act and the 2010 [Equality] Act. So that’s my view. It also happens to be the law in the United Kingdom.”

The Labour leader called for reforms of the Gender Recognition Act, under which people diagnosed with gender dysphoria who have lived in their acquired gender for at least two years can apply to be legally recognised.

“The process that people have to go through does need to be looked at,” he told The Times. “If you talk to anybody who’s been through the process there’s a real issue about respect and dignity.”"

In addition:

He called for a “more considered, respectful, tolerant debate about these issues”. Starmer added: “I don’t think it furthers the interests of anybody to continue the debate in the way that it’s been going on now for some time.”

@Artichokeleaves

It means I get left with a definite impression whether or not Starmer and co intend it:

The impression I have, since this is sexist, exclusionary, unfair, unhelpful, disregarding of any issues or needs females have,

Is that what male people want, they get. And female people just stop mattering when male people want stuff.

Which really means its a waste of time insisting that these male people are truly being perceived as women. They are not. They are very definitely being perceived as something different to and much more important than an adult human female. And no, it's not context dependent, and it's not complicated.

We appear to be living in a time where there's a lot of shy but committed male supremacists.

To start with I thought this kind of argument was ridiculous.

But, no. I'm with you. This totally has the feel of being a 'boys club' thing.

I actually feel a bit sorry for women like Yvette and Annaliese. I sense that they know what a woman is but have also seen what happened to Rosie Duffield. Spineless but then I, too, like to avoid confrontation. No sympathy whatsoever for Keir, actually can't bear him.

I think Dodds’ ‘I am obviously a woman’ remarks in parliament says it all really. She knows. She differentiates in her mind who is a woman and who is a transwoman. She might mouth the words, but her actions in the heat of the moment that tell the truth. Or … she only believes that ‘passing’ males can be considered women. Either way, she has the same dissonance that we have.

@Polynerd

I actually feel a bit sorry for women like Yvette and Annaliese. I sense that they know what a woman is but have also seen what happened to Rosie Duffield. Spineless but then I, too, like to avoid confrontation. No sympathy whatsoever for Keir, actually can't bear him.

If course they know what a woman is. Everyone knows which people are women!

The problem is that at the moment they are not prepared to stand up for women. They are currently trying to appease men. Appeasement doesn't work.

I think we need to stop asking them what they think a woman is. Seeing them flounder at being unable to answer a simple question gets us nowhere.

The important question is what they think a 'transwoman' is, and how a 'transwoman' is different from a man.

Is Karen White a transwoman? If not, why not? Pips Bunce (on his 'woman' days)? If there is no gatekeeping, who decides who is a genuine transwoman?

The other important question is about how someone 'lives as a woman' and how this differs from living as a man.

I think we need to stop asking them what they think a woman is. Seeing them flounder at being unable to answer a simple question gets us nowhere.

This.

And the time really is over for the female half of the UK electorate to be running after damn silly politicians imploring them to say something that might imply they have some lingering shred of grip and respect for females.

We have the information. At this point women need to start acting on it with blunt questions such as "what do you plan to do with females of disability, faith, cultures, traumas, CSA, who have no access to rape crisis, refuges, toilets, leisure centres? why should those females be paying the same taxes? How is this 'inclusive'? Why are you in favour of women's single sex facilities that actively exclude many females? Isn't the job of women's facilities to be accessible to all nine characteristics? How is this not male supremacism where male access and inclusion is so crucial to you but you have no interest in equal consideration or inclusion of females? How do you feel about male supremacism as a value, do you think it's something the female half of the UK should vote for you to enforce on them? Should we be raising little girls in the UK in the belief that 'no' and personal privacy and boundaries must always be predicated on whether they make a male person sad? What exactly is your knowledge and training in safeguarding to be commenting on policy in this way?"

This needs shifting until we have politicians galloping after women trying to plead that yes, really, listen, female humans are actually somewhere on the radar. Ball back in their court.

@ResisterRex

We had Tory canvassers round. I told them I will never vote for any party that throws me or my female relatives and friends under the bus. They seemed in firm agreement with me and understood the issues.

I wonder where Labour now are with the "this never comes up on the doorstep" line? Because it will most definitely come up on this doorstep!

But lest we forget ... the Tories are also the Party of the troubling and influential Caroline Nokes MP, Penny Mordaunt MP, Maria Miller MP, Crispin Blunt MP and many other TWAWsters.

These Tories have been in charge since 2010 and done a fuck tonne of damage to women and girls. And boys.

The other important question is about how someone 'lives as a woman' and how this differs from living as a man.

I don't know why the p-word isn't deployed more often.

Living as a woman = pretending to be a woman.

Why in the ever loving fuck do they keep pushing utterly ridiculous nonsense like 'males are females' when they must on some level know how unhinged and ludicrous it makes them look?

I have a lurking fear that what it reveals is more of a "whatevs" approach to protected characteristics more generally.

As in, with women's rights you might think "Well, I'm not a woman, and things look pretty good for them from my viewpoint - and actually it really was a nuisance that time I had to find maternity cover for that woman in the office - but everybody says you should support women's rights and I don't really know much about it so I'll just parrot back whatever I'm told without caring about anything except looking bad."

@SpinningTheSeedsOfLove I agree about the timeline. Though going back further, the GRA was Labour and it was the Tories warning against elements of it.

I did say to the canvassers that I understood the context in that the damage had been done under a coalition and then a Tory government. However, it seems to me that the Tories as a party are listening.

This has to have been the easiest policy issue for those on the opposition benches to have given sunlight to, and to have queried and criticised. Yet they haven't. The ones that have been vocal, have been lone voices in those parties. I admire them but they're on their own, as things stand.

I don't understand why but that does seem to be what's happened here.