The Cass Review- Interim Report

[rogdmum]

The Cass Review Interim Report has been released. 112 pages long and it’s such a bloody relief to read common sense.

cass.independent-review.uk/publications/interim-report/

There’s so much in it, but emphasis on taking a holistic approach with a great chart on page 57 showing the complex presentations in and complex pathways.

And social transitioning has been recognised as an active intervention!

“Social transition – this may not
be thought of as an intervention or treatment, because it is not something
that happens within health services. However, it is important to view it as an active intervention because it may have significant effects on the child or young person in terms of their psychological functioning. There are different views on the benefits versus the harms of early social transition. Whatever position one takes, it is important to acknowledge that it is not a neutral act, and better information is needed about outcomes.” Pages 62/63

So much in it. So much. And there’s more to come as the review continues to work on the issues.

*“I’ll be quite honest, if I could have had a choice I would have liked to have had a son who was completely heterosexual"

Is that a hate crime?

I could have had a choice I would have liked to have had a son who was completely heterosexual

Heterosexuality meaning what in this context exactly?

Because this is one of the founders of there's no such thing as sex, everyone's what they say they are today, straight males are lesbians, it's homophobic to expect the word homosexual to have a meaning, don't you police my labels....

As per bloody usual, right underneath all the word salad is very fixed sex based thinking that's mired so deep in sexist stereotypes its shocking.

There's context to Susie not wanting Jackie to be a gay boy.

But it's incredibly confused.

Oh good God yes,” she says. “I’ll be quite honest, if I could have had a choice I would have liked to have had a son who was completely heterosexual.

Because I feared for her future. I wasn’t horrified by the prospect of her being a girl – although I did find it extremely difficult to come to terms with - I just knew how hard things life be for her.

“When she was such a girly boy from such an early age I even started hoping she might grow out of it and it might turn out that I had a gay son. I think I must have been one of the few parents who was actually praying I had a gay son. But you could see from about the age of three it wasn’t just the toys she played with it was as much as the way she played with them.

It's not clear to me whether she feared for Jackie's future is a gay boy, or a straight girl.

It just comes across as horribly confused to me. All of it.

Susie Green comes across as having essentialist views about what boys and girls should be like. A boy who plays with dolls - to her - must be either female inside or gay. Which is obviously an essentialist way to think about sex. It's very silly, but sadly it's also gone on to do harm.

I would imagine that JG was very ill as a teenager and likely self harming. I can't imagine any other reason for SG to be so driven. And far too many of us have had self harming teenagers and are left with zero support.

'I would imagine that JG was very ill as a teenager and likely self harming. I can't imagine any other reason for SG to be so driven.'

Which, sorry to say, was (in my opinion) made more likely by the decisions taken by SG when JG was younger.

The whole thing has always been based on rigid sexist stereotypes with a dollop of homophobia.

Even the diagnostic criteria.

Then you read Trans by Helen Joyce and understand more of the history.

And realise it's basic an invented condition. By social stereotypical and homophobia pressures and then by the medical profession.

There's a thread discussing JT and her assertions around MH; I like some of her stuff and disagree with others, and even think some is plain dangerous. However, this is one "illness/diagnosis/ condition" that has been invented and pathologised.

Certain people at mermaids needed to validate their own course of action. Mermaids offered them that option.

"Oh good God yes,” she says. “I’ll be quite honest, if I could have had a choice I would have liked to have had a son who was completely heterosexual."
If I ever said such a thing about my child, I think that should raise serious questions about my suitability for... well, most things, let alone being in charge of Stonewall

MrsOvertinsWindow posted a link to this article on another thread and it's brilliant. It's about the impact of social transition on young children

www.transgendertrend.com/childhood-social-transition/

Yes, that's a clear but disturbing article, Clymene.

'Social transition' at a young age is surely more of a removal or lessening of external pressures than anything else?

A child is then 'allowed' to play with whatever toys, wear whatever clothes. And I wonder if this plays out differently between the sexes, too - masculinity tends to be more heavily policed than femininity. I suppose that's standard homophobia.

I'm finding it quite hard to unpick all the feelings I have after reading this. (I don't want this post to sound me me me but I imagine lots of you feel the same way?). My first reaction was a sense of relief, but also vindication, which I know makes me sound awful but hopefully I will explain it properly, although I'm a bit inarticulate today. Second to this though is an awful amount of anger, and sadness.

Like PP, I personally know young people directly affected, and indeed harmed by this ideology, physically as well as mentally. I'm furious that they have gone through this. I'm also furious that we (GC feminists, especially fabulous MNers) have been trying to say all this for so long, but have been ignored, shouted down, silenced and abused.

I feel a lot of anger that we were subjected to all this now that it's finally finally starting to be recognised that this ideology is harmful - all the way along we were the ones with DCs best interests at the forefront of our minds, when we have been presented as just the opposite - as though we were the ones wanting to harm DC. (I'm feeling furious just typing that). The amount of abuse women have received, all the pressure we have been under, women losing jobs and being silenced and ostracised.

There's also a sense of disbelief that it has taken this long for sanity to finally finally start (albeit very slowly) to prevail. That an ideology so fucking ridiculous (and SG's ludicrous comments listed up thread demonstrate this so well) has been allowed to become mainstream and used to brainwash and harm children.

I also feel ashamed that I feel an awful childish sense of told you so reading the report - it makes it sound as though I am triumphant that we are "vindicated". It's not like that, my main feelings are just relief, anger and sadness. It just feels like we have had to fight so many battles (not just things like being called a terfy child killing cunt on social media, but the horrendous RL battles of women who have been arrested, had to go through court, lost their jobs etc etc). I have always believed this ideology would eventually be recognised for what it was (and like PP said, there should be enquiries and it should all be brought very clearly into the sunlight) but fuck me, it's taken such a long time, at such a cost, and we aren't even there yet.

I think the Mermaids frantic back pedalling shows the direction of travel though. What a shame we have had to fight so hard for people to start to realise that removing the genitals of 16 yr olds is abuse not affirmation.

I’d really like to see claims about suicide ideation formally addressed.

Yes, WeBuilt. Overwhelming sadness for the people whose lives have been harmed by this dreadful, ill-evidenced nonsense. And relief, in that I can see a possible way forward, that many more children may receive better care, may avoid being told they are 'in the wrong body' and all the reckless stuff that entails. And still fury, a huge cold fury, at the people who have not only sold all this crap to vulnerable children and families but have vilified, attacked, and threatened the women who have tried to raise questions.

Can’t tell you what a relief this is to read, as a nurse who campaigns on the issues of sex and gender. This is what we’ve been saying. I hope to God kids get the care they deserve in future and this madness stops. Will be throwing this in front of every health organisation that subscribes to Stonewalls nonsense that we can now solidly refute.

@YetAnotherSpartacus

I’d really like to see claims about suicide ideation formally addressed.

This is really key.

Like @WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles I have a lot of confused feelings and in my case the confusion is exacerbated by some stuff that has been happening in my extended family over the past few years, and I am full of soul searching about whether I should have done more with my feelings that this young person was at the mercy of a horrible fad. I don't know that I could have achieved anything other than created bad feeling - but I don't know.

But yes this suicide thing really needs to be directly addressed, loudly, with data.

I wonder if parents and HCPs have already raised this - maybe anyone reading this who has a direct interest could contact the inquiry?

@WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles

I'm finding it quite hard to unpick all the feelings I have after reading this. (I don't want this post to sound me me me but I imagine lots of you feel the same way?). My first reaction was a sense of relief, but also vindication, which I know makes me sound awful but hopefully I will explain it properly, although I'm a bit inarticulate today. Second to this though is an awful amount of anger, and sadness.

Like PP, I personally know young people directly affected, and indeed harmed by this ideology, physically as well as mentally. I'm furious that they have gone through this. I'm also furious that we (GC feminists, especially fabulous MNers) have been trying to say all this for so long, but have been ignored, shouted down, silenced and abused.

I feel a lot of anger that we were subjected to all this now that it's finally finally starting to be recognised that this ideology is harmful - all the way along we were the ones with DCs best interests at the forefront of our minds, when we have been presented as just the opposite - as though we were the ones wanting to harm DC. (I'm feeling furious just typing that). The amount of abuse women have received, all the pressure we have been under, women losing jobs and being silenced and ostracised.

There's also a sense of disbelief that it has taken this long for sanity to finally finally start (albeit very slowly) to prevail. That an ideology so fucking ridiculous (and SG's ludicrous comments listed up thread demonstrate this so well) has been allowed to become mainstream and used to brainwash and harm children.

I also feel ashamed that I feel an awful childish sense of told you so reading the report - it makes it sound as though I am triumphant that we are "vindicated". It's not like that, my main feelings are just relief, anger and sadness. It just feels like we have had to fight so many battles (not just things like being called a terfy child killing cunt on social media, but the horrendous RL battles of women who have been arrested, had to go through court, lost their jobs etc etc). I have always believed this ideology would eventually be recognised for what it was (and like PP said, there should be enquiries and it should all be brought very clearly into the sunlight) but fuck me, it's taken such a long time, at such a cost, and we aren't even there yet.

I think the Mermaids frantic back pedalling shows the direction of travel though. What a shame we have had to fight so hard for people to start to realise that removing the genitals of 16 yr olds is abuse not affirmation.

Wonderful post

@Whitefire

How do wait times for Tavistock compare to wait times for CAMHS?

A major concern is that if there is a diagnosis of Autism CAMHS will wash their hands of the YP, even if the issue isn't related to the autism diagnosis or is something that needs specialist input. The danger therefore is that a significant cohort of children will still effectively be ignored by CAMHS.

This is true.

I also wonder to what degree CAMHS have jumped on the 'affirmative wagon' when there is the first inkling of a gender issue. Referring a child to GIDS reduces their waiting lists.

I am in the CAMHS system with both of my autistic children. The norm is that they are diagnosed and then you are left to get on with it. You have to demonstrate anxiety beyond what is normal for children on the autism spectrum to receive help from CAMHS.

This is what really angers me about those stating that gender dysphoric children are unique in the sense that they have to cope with unacceptable wait times. Services are diabolical for children with autism or other mental health difficulties.

FWIW I think there is a massive link between Sensory Processing Disorder (which is co-morbid with autism) and the rise in autistic girls on the gender pathway. I have a non gender conforming 12 year old daughter, she can't bear the feeling of things that other girls wear, such as make up or tight clothes. She doesn't understand the social conversations that other girls have about make up etc. Autistic girls are so vulnerable to this. Mothers of autistic girls have been sold a line that gender ideology will fix their problems. Anyone who expresses a concern on the impact of this on these girls is a bigot. It's really frustrating.

lifeturnsonadime, a friend's child suffered crippling anxiety and CAMHS response? "It is due to his autism, discharged". No attempt to help at all.

But when it comes to gender ideology all the big autism groups are totally captured.

On p. 37 "The Review will seek to gain a better understanding of suicide data and the impact of puberty blockers through its research programme".

Lately I have seen a few posts on Facebook which acknowledge to link between autism and transgenderism - more autistic people are transgender than 'neurotypicals' (with 'neurotyptical' being used in the same way as 'middle class/middle aged/white'). But rather than expressing concern these take the line that it is something that autistic individuals should be screened for so they can get going with treatment/transitioning sooner.

@Lovelyricepudding

Lately I have seen a few posts on Facebook which acknowledge to link between autism and transgenderism - more autistic people are transgender than 'neurotypicals' (with 'neurotyptical' being used in the same way as 'middle class/middle aged/white'). But rather than expressing concern these take the line that it is something that autistic individuals should be screened for so they can get going with treatment/transitioning sooner.

I've been thrown out of a couple of facebook groups for expressing concern about this.

Apparently being concerned that autistic girls are damaging their bodies makes me a bigot.

Apparently not following gender ideology means that I'm not entitled to be in groups to support parents of autistic girls.

Thank you for these fantastic posts. I am so relieved the Cass interim report is out and I hope, I really hope that many of those who call us transphobes and bigots will at least read the report. Too much to ask, I know.

I'll bet no one loses their job

@Lovelyricepudding

Lately I have seen a few posts on Facebook which acknowledge to link between autism and transgenderism - more autistic people are transgender than 'neurotypicals' (with 'neurotyptical' being used in the same way as 'middle class/middle aged/white'). But rather than expressing concern these take the line that it is something that autistic individuals should be screened for so they can get going with treatment/transitioning sooner.

The NAS are effectively promoting this idea on their website with the kinds of articles they're hosting.