Penny logic

[LittleWhingingWoman]

"There’s a certain twisted interior logic to it, until you think about it for five minutes and start asking such heretical questions as why on earth, for instance, a man would go to all the trouble of legally changing his gender just to commit sexual assault in a society that already allows most rapists to walk free. " says Laura Penny.

Ok I'll go first.
Penny is saying why would rapists get creative when they get away with it anyway.

Because they also have a sexual fetish for womens clothes. Does she not understand this? Because they are thrilled by having laws changed to accommodate their rapist behaviours. Because they are addicted to lies and secrets and furtive colonising of womens and childrens spaces. Why do rapists become priests if they can do it in the open Laurie?

all the trouble of legally changing his gender

The people who say this are normally in favour of self id, so 'all the trouble' consists of nothing more than signing a document. They want to do away with 'all the trouble' like a medical diagnosis.

@LittleWhingingWoman

The reasons I'll toss in is that they are controlling, manipulative sadists who want to see women frightened and/or angry about males in their spaces and around their children but helpless to do anything about it.

Changing gender is an assertion of dominance, of claiming access to spaces they didn't previously have access to along with the thrill of transgressing boundaries which is what queer theory is all about.

This exchange between Penny and JKR is delicious. Penny is so outclassed it's almost painful

twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1500890856265498626?s=21

The best comment that git me is apparently reading the bad reviews and threats gave her ptsd.

But anyone else when confronted with something unexpected should just accept their eyes

By anyone else I mean a little girl. And by unexpected I mean an adult males penis

Avert their eyes

Why would they change gender ?

Well beyond asking why should they actually change gender - they could just lie ?

I would go on to say that because most rapists get away with it makes it more likely that they will take any opportunity so I'd like to reduce the opportunity space not make it easier

I would also say that Historically seeing a man go in , or just hanging round the ladies would mark him out as a bad one , so a rape prosecution would be easier. Lost that now

@Whatwouldscullydo

The best comment that git me is apparently reading the bad reviews and threats gave her ptsd.

But anyone else when confronted with something unexpected should just accept their eyes

By anyone else I mean a little girl. And by unexpected I mean an adult males penis

There's a bearded he/him who identifies as a therapist in the comments saying that this is perfectly possible

I think yesterday showed quite clearly Penny’s lack of self awareness.

They was going on about how they never caused harm to Joanne, blah blah blah and not once addressed their own words pasted in Joanne Rowling’s tweet. Paragraphs of Penny talking about Joanne’s ‘public spasm of self delusion’ after Joanne explained about her background.

It is clear that Penny is exceedingly dishonest. That she cannot even acknowledge that she monsters women she disagrees with over this. She does call women t*rfs and fascIsts.

It is like the other day a regular poster to these boards posted a cartoon depicting an evil capitalist saying racist and xenophobic things and told us we were just like that for wanting single sex spaces to exclude males. I would be horrified to post anything in a similar vein to MN. But that poster felt it was appropriate on a thread discussing whether the ‘most vulnerable’ label used in Scottish Government for transitioned males had merit compared to other sub groups.

The self-righteousness that these people feel is jarring to see. It comes from evangelical-like belief in the ideology.

And did any of these TRAs give a shit that they may be adding to JKR's trauma after she opened up about the abuse she suffered, and continued to receive rape and death threats and have porn posted to her? Did they fuxk.

Who even is this twat?

The self-righteousness that these people feel is jarring to see. It comes from evangelical-like belief in the ideology.

I agree. It's the thing I find hardest to tolerate, the gaslighting and hypocrisy.

”why on earth, for instance, a man would go to all the trouble of legally changing his gender just to commit sexual assault in a society that already allows most rapists to walk free.”

I think there’s a complete misunderstanding here of the psychology. Some men might want this simply because they can, because it’s subversive.

Even if he doesn’t choose to take the legal change, the law sends a message to him that the government is giving him more rights to do as he pleases. It sends a message that the government believes that men should be able to access women’s spaces and that if he does so, the women will be unable to ask enforcers to exclude him just for being there, as they once would have been able to. He now has a right to be there. All he has to do is claim he is a woman. Nobody can prove he’s not.

I was thinking about the general issue of men in women’s spaces when debating this elsewhere. A committed transactivist (female) was arguing that crime figures didn’t warrant all this angst and that being afraid of strange men was illogical. She said perhaps parents should stop emphasizing “stranger danger” to children.

My parents never particularly emphasized that concept to me. I learned it as a teenager, when men committed verbal sexual assault/exhibitionism on me. It occurred in secluded spaces those men had almost certainly selected for the purpose. I was not physically hurt and there was no criminal report made. But the fact that I can remember how threatening it felt forty years on suggests it had quite a significant psychological effect.

And she, and the Scottish government, want to send those men an invitation into women’s private spaces and they either think it won’t lead to harm, or think the harm is justified to help other vulnerable men?

It’s the height of woman hatred. I can’t see it any other way.

Not "weaponising your victimhood," are you, Laurie?

@Whatwouldscullydo

The best comment that git me is apparently reading the bad reviews and threats gave her ptsd.

But anyone else when confronted with something unexpected should just accept their eyes

By anyone else I mean a little girl. And by unexpected I mean an adult males penis

And not just PTSD, no no, Penny suffered COMPLEX PTSD!! Whatever that is. They must be special. 🙄 I'm really glad JK called Penny out, she's on fire at the mo. 🔥

It's quite something to see a privately educated person who went to Oxford positioning themselves as terribly oppressed and having had a life of struggle and strife.

And not just PTSD, no no, Penny suffered COMPLEX PTSD!! Whatever that is.

It's embarrassing, isn't it? Complex PTSD was identified by Judith Herman in her book Trauma and Recovery, published in 1991. It differs from ordinary PTSD in that rather than being the result of a single trauma (such as rape or assault) it is the consequence of multiple repeated traumas, such as years of child abuse from a stepfather or being in a war zone such as Syria for months and witnessing horrors such as friends and family being killed. Complex PTSD is much harder to treat because the trauma is so profound.

To say that she had complex PTSD as a result of three bad book reviews is not just self-absorbed and self-pitying but revealing of an utter lack of empathy for those who have been through genuine trauma.

According to penny's supporters the bad reviewed reawakened the complex ptsd. The childhood trauma of going to a school where annual fees start at £4k and go up to £9k. Poor Laura.

To be fair, they clarified that their pre-existing condition was triggered.

Still, the message truly was that no one should ever hold Laurie Penny accountable for what they writes. Because it may trigger them.

Yet, Penny can have free reign over what they say about others.

And ignore all the 'accountability' that has been posted to them on those threads. Their own actions that they cannot even acknowledge they have done despite many posting the evidence right there.

It is obvious that a script runs through Penny's mind. That script may well be 'These people are hateful. They deserve everything they get, every slur being sent their way. I am superior in intellect and in morality.'

I'm sure it feels rough to Laurie, but she is simply on the receiving end of a variant of the golden rule.

We're treating her as she likes to treat others.

This is hopefully a good learning experience, but she really should have been exposed to something like this at a younger age. How you get to 35(?) without understanding that you should treat others how you would like to be treated, I don't know.

Most of us would not be terribly interested in how she feels about her book reviews, but in context of her own behaviour to other women it's somewhere between enraging and comical. I think we tend to go for laughter ("Thoughts and prayers, Julie") as the gentler option.

If she wasn't so cruelly dismissive of people who have suffered trauma and assault I might have a bit of time for her but this sounds like lots of other people who seem to develop disorders after spending too much time on social media

She's 35. How has she managed to get to that age so ignorant and naive about the way some males operate, about the exercise of power? She's like someone writing a book about sailing who has never actually seen the sea.

Yes, that's right, trans people are the only class of people who never ever lie and never ever misrepresent themselves. They are a sacred caste of god-like deities on earth. Every other class of people should have to undergo safeguarding checks when working with or being admitted to safe spaces with the vulnerable, but never ever trans people because THEY ARE WHO THEY SAY THEY ARE. Especially trans people who have previously committed rape or adolescents with autism or mental health problems who want drastic surgery and drugs asap, their every word must be taken as absolute law at all times and anyone who doesn't agree ENTUSIASTICALLY is EVIL. Everyone knows abusive men never lie or pretend to be something they're not.

@Helleofabore

To be fair, they clarified that their pre-existing condition was triggered.

Still, the message truly was that no one should ever hold Laurie Penny accountable for what they writes. Because it may trigger them.

Yet, Penny can have free reign over what they say about others.

And ignore all the 'accountability' that has been posted to them on those threads. Their own actions that they cannot even acknowledge they have done despite many posting the evidence right there.

It is obvious that a script runs through Penny's mind. That script may well be 'These people are hateful. They deserve everything they get, every slur being sent their way. I am superior in intellect and in morality.'

Cause by what though? And I can find no mention of it in their writings before this. Given that Penny draws extensively on their lived experience to make a point in their books, it seems extraordinary that she's never mentioned this repeated trauma before.

Worse than that, despite " acceptance without exception " rules for the rest of us, or lose your job or get called by the police etc , as soon as a crime is committed suddenly they were never trans in the first place. Thrown out of the category completely. No one calls the police on that though