Penny logic

[LittleWhingingWoman]

"There’s a certain twisted interior logic to it, until you think about it for five minutes and start asking such heretical questions as why on earth, for instance, a man would go to all the trouble of legally changing his gender just to commit sexual assault in a society that already allows most rapists to walk free. " says Laura Penny.

Ok I'll go first.
Penny is saying why would rapists get creative when they get away with it anyway.

Because they also have a sexual fetish for womens clothes. Does she not understand this? Because they are thrilled by having laws changed to accommodate their rapist behaviours. Because they are addicted to lies and secrets and furtive colonising of womens and childrens spaces. Why do rapists become priests if they can do it in the open Laurie?

@WinterTrees

Apologies Twitterwhooooo I haven't read the transcript and was just going by the clip, so wasn't aware of the background to the full payment story. I can well believe that she was pulling a fast one for her own PR because that seems to be what she does.

(I think I picked up from Benjamin Cohen and the green-haired Welsh mayor on the Nolan podcast that one does not become non-binary, one has always been so, though one may not 'discover' it until a certain age. So, you know - Starkey was completely wrong to read her as a young woman. What a chump!)

So true!

Her non-binary awareness had been there all along, waiting for a particular publishing deal to permit it to emerge from its cocoon.

As an aside, I would say that I don't know anyone who has CPTSD who would say anything remotely along the lines of "I felt so ill that I thought I had Covid but, nope, just CPTSD" as she tweeted, nor anyone who would recover from an episode of being triggered in a couple of days.

Nor who would repeatedly put themselves out there to be re-triggered immediately afterwards.

But it's possible that Penny is blurring the boundaries or expanding the bandwidth of CPTSD in some way...

On the subject of her spat with David Starkey, I find him obnoxious and aggressive BUT Laurie showed that she has neither the tools nor intelligence to debate him or anyone, her go to was to attack him and name call him and then, as is her wont, to weep and wail when he used the same tactic as her as an audience member quite rightly pointed out.

Debate is about the issue Laurie, I would have thought your excellent education would have taught you that.

I can't open that Laurie Penny/David Starkie link but, if it's the clip I've seen before then whatever I may think of LP (and believe me, little or none of that is good) nothing excuses David Starkie's behaviour. I think the way he stands over her, jabbing his finger in her face is intended to intimidate. I'm not surprised she was shaken up.

Soz, David Starkey.

I remember the Starkey thing when it happened - at the time, LP posted on twitter how shaken she was after he'd "attacked" her. She took a while to correct people who thought she'd meant physically attacked....

^

His body language was certainly aggressive, but what he said was spot on. I think he was genuinely enraged by the baseless accusation that he didn't pay his taxes by Penny who was trying to slander him rather than engage with his arguments. He knew full well what a privileged background she's from, what a poor background he's from, and to boot that she's the one who paints herself as being for the people, all the while trying to charge exorbitant fees to speak for a non-profit charitable organisation. I'd be enraged too, tbh, and whilst I think Starkey would have made his point better if he'd kept his cool, standing over someone and pointing your finger isn't a crime.

Penny is an awful, manipulative cry bully, whatever I might think of Starkey.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Penny is an awful, manipulative cry bully, whatever I might think of Starkey.

Agree.

What had where David Starkey pays tax to do with the discussion in hand? LP was on a mission to accuse David Starkey of everything she could, she was not debating the subject it's what those like her always do, get personal, throw all manner of unrelated stuff into the discussion in order to obfuscate and slur the other person. LP does this constantly she did it over the WiSpa incident, she does it to JKR and when it backfires or people respond in kind it's all Wa, wa, wa, everyone is mean to me and she throws a pity party for herself.

The thing is, I don't even know why we are are talking about her. Her writing is mince, she is the ultimate Aunt Lydia and she whines when she gets pushback from kicking other women. Genuinely, what has she done?

Well to answer my own question I googled. Didn't find any answers but I did find these beauties.

www.spiked-online.com/2022/03/09/dont-dish-it-out-if-you-cant-take-it/

www.spectator.co.uk/article/sorry-laurie-penny-but-the-patriarchy-likes-short-hair

Maybe we should stop. Fish and barrels comes to mind

The thing is, I don't even know why we are are talking about her.

Same reason shows like The Office or whatever work - there something really compelling about watching someone with a really horrible personality and zero self-awareness combined with huge self-regard.

Especially when the script writers ensure they repeatedly get into trouble because of it and never learn anything.

Haha, I agree. I was thinking 'Jill' from Nighty Night, she's got the same kind of DARVO thing going on.

@MiladyBerserko

The thing is, I don't even know why we are are talking about her. Her writing is mince, she is the ultimate Aunt Lydia and she whines when she gets pushback from kicking other women. Genuinely, what has she done?

Sufficient to be an author, media personality, and invited speaker who is well regarded in some circles and has some influence on a variety of matters (ca 177K followers on Twitter with a blue tick).

All of this is more than a number of people in the public eye and less than others.

(I genuinely didn't intend the above to read like Dame Edna.)

Are you her, Had ?

Ok fuck, sorry, I meant, "Are you they Had"

No pronoun abuse from ze, I assure they

If that's a serious enquiry, no, I'm not LP. I am a longstanding serial MN NCer as MNHQ would verify.

Like other people on this thread, I am used to reviewing people's publications and I adhere to Nolan principles when doing that.

I will praise the good work of someone if I think it's coherent, verifiable, and has a good chance to be replicated, irrespective of what I think of them or an organisation. I will criticise the work of people or organisations that I admire if I think it's flawed, no matter how well intentioned it is. I acknowledge that I've lost friends for this.

If LP wants to be free from criticism, LP needs to stop creating anything that is open to criticism, or not read reviews.

It isn't up to those providing critical analysis to bias themselves to provide only positive comments as, for now, we still have the freedom to be honest in reviews.

No, I wasn't serious.

standing over someone and pointing your finger isn't a crime.
Is that the yardstick then? Not a crime?
Starkey was/is perfectly capable of using his brain and his command of language to hand LP her arse on a plate. Instead he used his physique to intimidate her. When he approaches her, he looks like he's only just managing to keep his feelings under control. I would have found that upsetting and threatening and I'm not prepared to let my dislike of LP stop me from saying his behaviour was not ok.

And now I'm off because I agree that LP normally gets far more attention than she deserves.

I can well believe that the panning her book got was heartbreaking for LP. Any writer would be devastated by that response. She was exposed in her lack of knowledge and credentials and it must have been completely humiliating for her. So I sort of get the level of upset.

The thing is, though, it is one of those moments in life which is kind of a gift. She's face to face with the reality that her work and ideas are not valuable or useful. This is her chance to say, wow, I need to retreat and think and really work out why this is happening. And then confront her behaviour towards other women and towards girls, apologise, and make amends.

It would take a lot of courage to do that, and I really hope that LP finds it in herself to take that path, develop integrity and honesty, and start using her voice for good.

I thought Starkey looked completely pissed in that video. His behaviour was aggressive and the chair should have put a stop to it.

They are both arseholes and they both behaved like arseholes, in my opinion. Different flavours of arseholery, certainly.

Floisme Fair enough, I'm not one for defending aggressive behaviour, but I could just imagine myself losing my temper at Penny for her sheer hypocrisy, not saying it's right but it's human.