Penny logic

[LittleWhingingWoman]

"There’s a certain twisted interior logic to it, until you think about it for five minutes and start asking such heretical questions as why on earth, for instance, a man would go to all the trouble of legally changing his gender just to commit sexual assault in a society that already allows most rapists to walk free. " says Laura Penny.

Ok I'll go first.
Penny is saying why would rapists get creative when they get away with it anyway.

Because they also have a sexual fetish for womens clothes. Does she not understand this? Because they are thrilled by having laws changed to accommodate their rapist behaviours. Because they are addicted to lies and secrets and furtive colonising of womens and childrens spaces. Why do rapists become priests if they can do it in the open Laurie?

Gosh, why would abusive men do something that makes it easier for them to abuse women? It really is a puzzler!

Again, CPSTD is for extreme trauma. As Clymene says, I'm surprised she hasn't mentioned it before.

Cause by what though? And I can find no mention of it in their writings before this. Given that Penny draws extensively on their lived experience to make a point in their books, it seems extraordinary that she's never mentioned this repeated trauma before.

@Signalbox

Cause by what though? And I can find no mention of it in their writings before this. Given that Penny draws extensively on their lived experience to make a point in their books, it seems extraordinary that she's never mentioned this repeated trauma before.

So am I, like thousands of women. It hasn't given me Complex PTSD though.

According to mind:
The types of traumatic events that can cause complex PTSD include:
• childhood abuse, neglect or abandonment
• ongoing domestic violence or abuse
• repeatedly witnessing violence or abuse
• being forced or manipulated into prostitution (trading sex)
• torture, kidnapping or slavery
• being a prisoner of war.

These are not Penny's experiences and it's disgusting that she's weaponising other people's trauma to shut down conversation.

In the Spectator www.spectator.co.uk/article/now-jk-rowling-takes-on-the-critics?fbclid=IwAR0Gywgg3CMtDk1IwU65SW2umYziDQrYX9Ump3Bp1rjy0fCie8-9Tbhn4yU

Sorry that doesn't make sense! I meant to quote Penny, not me! Hopefully you get the gist.

Yes, that's right, trans people are the only class of people who never ever lie and never ever misrepresent themselves. They are a sacred caste of god-like deities on earth.

It's not trans people, it's people who say they're trans who are the sacred caste.

Of course everyone who says they're trans, is trans, so it amounts to the same thing.

Everyone who says they're trans, is trans. This group of people (who say they're trans, therefore they are) are a sacred caste of people who can never do anything wrong.

Of course when one of them does do something wrong (like Karen White) it turns out that that person isn't really trans.

So that means that not everyone who says they're trans is really trans. Or it means that not all trans people are angels who never do anything wrong. Or both.

Laurie Penny identifies as intelligent. Why does she find this so difficult to understand?

[quote Toseland]In the Spectator www.spectator.co.uk/article/now-jk-rowling-takes-on-the-critics?fbclid=IwAR0Gywgg3CMtDk1IwU65SW2umYziDQrYX9Ump3Bp1rjy0fCie8-9Tbhn4yU[/quote]
That’s excellent.

Under all the schoolgirl spite is a very immature little girl who isn't as bright as she thinks she is

I've got to say I don't think that the spite is hiding an immature little girl at all. The characteristics and dynamic at play seems to be much more that of a very angry, entitled, narcissistic adult. (And I'll leave it there.)

A lot of the tactics Penny uses remind me of a certain young labour women's officer, who would regularly declare previously unmentioned experiences or characteristics when it suited.

I agree with your assessment WinterTrees.

[quote Clymene]This exchange between Penny and JKR is delicious. Penny is so outclassed it's almost painful

twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1500890856265498626?s=21[/quote]
I don't know if it makes me a bit cruel, but this made me laugh so hard

Laurie Penny identifies as intelligent. Why does she find this so difficult to understand?

If you go by the basic rule of thumb that 'identifies as' = isn't...

If she has CPTSD then I'm sure she will have had a lot of therapy for this condition. I am also sure, then, that she will have been warned by her therapist that things that trigger her traumatic response need to be avoided or reframed. I think it is unwise for someone so likely to be triggered to put themselves into the public eye and put their writing up for criticism, if negative reviews cause a relapse.

Maybe what she needs to do is retire from public discourse, social media and publishing until she is mentally resilient enough to cope with other people's opinions?

KookaburraSits, I don't think CurrtwurstPrion was weaponsing trauma. I vividly remember the elderly man who managed to corner me in a park one day. It was 1962/3 winter, and the park lake was frozen solid, so many people were walking or sliding on it. This man came up to me and started telling me how he had sex with his seventeen year old daughter (I was twelve) in graphic detail. I was a polite girl and did not know how to disengage with this predator. I made some excuse eventually and managed it, but not before I had heard more than I wanted - and the information affected my thoughts for years - and felt very upset. I told no-one either. That such men might be able, with impunity, to enter the few spaces women can be without men, horrifies me, too.

OldCrone

Yes, that's right, trans people are the only class of people who never ever lie and never ever misrepresent themselves. They are a sacred caste of god-like deities on earth.

It's not trans people, it's people who say they're trans who are the sacred caste.

This.

When there is no description, definition, or any possible verification or identification of what trans is, means or looks like, then it's time to acknowledge that it's just a method to do all manner of things unchallenged, but largely to dominate women.

@Grammarnut

KookaburraSits, I don't think CurrtwurstPrion was weaponsing trauma. I vividly remember the elderly man who managed to corner me in a park one day. It was 1962/3 winter, and the park lake was frozen solid, so many people were walking or sliding on it. This man came up to me and started telling me how he had sex with his seventeen year old daughter (I was twelve) in graphic detail. I was a polite girl and did not know how to disengage with this predator. I made some excuse eventually and managed it, but not before I had heard more than I wanted - and the information affected my thoughts for years - and felt very upset. I told no-one either. That such men might be able, with impunity, to enter the few spaces women can be without men, horrifies me, too.

I wasn’t making any comment on TheCurrywurstPrion's post. My point was that when JKR revealed how she'd been abused, she was accused of weaponising her trauma by those on Laurie Penny's side of the debate. I felt the same accusation could be levelled at someone claiming to have an episode of CPTSD triggered by book reviews.

I'm still not sure who this Laurie Penny person is, or why anyone should pay attention to anything they have to say on anything, least of all feminism since they claim they're not a woman. I've had a look at their Wikipedia page and it just describes a solidly middle class childhood, boarding school progressing to the standard Oxford degree and then becoming a journalist. Sounds like a very privileged background to this working class woman, and that the non-binary and various disorders have been thrown in an attempt to try to make themself sound more interesting and oppressed. If I want to be informed about how removing all safeguarding affects vulnerable women I would rather listen to someone who has worked in this area, an expert, rather than some randomer who claims she's terribly traumatised from her bad book reviews, and someone who has led such a sheltered existence that she claims abusive men don't lie.

Sounds like a very privileged background to this working class woman, and that the non-binary and various disorders have been thrown in an attempt to try to make themself sound more interesting and oppressed.

Agree with this. It comes across like Penny is trying to avoid being seen as a privileged and therefore problematic white woman.

Yes, and I've nothing against privileged white women at all, but she should own it and not tell women less privileged than her why we should agree to having our rights taken away because apparently, abusive men never lie. Seems Penny uses these 'identities' they claim in order to speak about vulnerable people with authenticity as a 'vulnerable' person themself. I'm calling horseshit on that.

Oh dear Because trans people are just people like any other and in the case of so called TW, they are men.

This is the biological reality. The biological reality of men continues to inform our equality act and our behaviour, i.e. being wary of male strangers in our private spaces. So why does that change now? If men are all of a sudden such a low risk why not make every private space including prisons unisex?

When did all trans people become angels?!

twitter.com/PennyRed/status/1501333692186300422?t=R7O4EfT3jPcr3iKrkxRVvg&s=19

Isn't it funny how, when push comes to shove, and dispite being told how trsnsphobic it is to talk about biological reality in this way, when in a hurry the brain reverts to what it knows.... Its only women that give birth, and only women who need access to abortion rights.

Even the most die hard trans right activists know this. How dare they try and press their language on us when they cannot even commit to it themselves.

@rabbitwoman

twitter.com/PennyRed/status/1501333692186300422?t=R7O4EfT3jPcr3iKrkxRVvg&s=19

Isn't it funny how, when push comes to shove, and dispite being told how trsnsphobic it is to talk about biological reality in this way, when in a hurry the brain reverts to what it knows.... Its only women that give birth, and only women who need access to abortion rights.

Even the most die hard trans right activists know this. How dare they try and press their language on us when they cannot even commit to it themselves.

Reminds me of a reddit thread where lots of transwomen were lamenting the dysphoria of not having periods. One of them bought tampax anyway just to feel solidarity with women. A transman then arrived to scold them for associating periods and childbirth with womanhood. For people who scorn "GCSE biology" they sure resort to it a lot themselves when the guard is down.

Article on this by Julie Bindel: thecritic.co.uk/the-penny-drops/

[quote wateronthebrain]Article on this by Julie Bindel: thecritic.co.uk/the-penny-drops/[/quote]
That's great!

If there are no longer single sex spaces men / boys wishing to harm women / girls won’t need to fill out a form to get entry to those spaces.