Dare I ask - the trans issue?

[shoplifteroftheworld]

How do people feel about the 'trans women are women' idea?

A friend recently said I was a TERF which I'm not but I don't agree that a man in his 50's who suddenly identifies as female and wears a dress has any idea of what it is to be truly female.

Feeling that you are trapped in the wrong body must be hell and the surgery one goes through is extreme to say the least. But it doesn't make you the opposite sex to the one you were born as.

Am I getting this wrong?

@Squidgames4U

Whether or not trans women are women, I am in the camp that believes they should be treated as women in society. Their experiences will be different, but my experiences will be very different to yours.

At what point should they be treated as a woman? Is it after surgery or after hormones or after a name change?

@DrSaibatso
I’ll see if I can find that link to a poster who explained on another thread that a male is not adapted from a female blue-print as was formerly taught.

You have a problem with transwomen, and don't for a second say you don't. You don't get to decide how they identify, thankfully and never will.

I couldn't care less how anyone chooses to identify but when it comes to my teenage daughter never having the choice of when and in what context she sees male genitals then I am afraid it stops there.

If you're serious about joining womanhood, not getting everything you want due to the body you inhabit is pretty much lesson 1.

No, you're not getting it wrong. No they're not women.

[quote ScrollingLeaves]@DrSaibatso
I’ll see if I can find that link to a poster who explained on another thread that a male is not adapted from a female blue-print as was formerly taught.[/quote]
Thank you. Please feel free to PM as I may not see it otherwise.

Me too please @ScrollingLeaves @DrSaibasto

@SliceOfCakeCupOfTea and @Waitwhat23

Thank you so much for doing some googling on this - glad I’m not the only one who finds it fascinating!

@ScrollingLeaves

“TheAbbotOfUnreason

Pelvic morphology differs markedly between the sexes, but only after puberty. It seems that with the onset of puberty, the female pelvis expands; with the onset of menopause, it contracts again. The male pelvis remains on the same developmental trajectory throughout a lifetime.

www.pnas.org/content/113/19/5227”

The differences exist before puberty but are more difficult to distinguish.

Not sure if the link to the paper worked.

Results show that, until puberty, female and male pelves exhibit only moderate sexual dimorphism and follow largely similar developmental trajectories. With the onset of puberty, however, the female trajectory diverges substantially from the common course, resulting in rapid expansion of obstetrically relevant pelvic dimensions up to the age of 25–30 y.

Only moderate differences between male and female pelvises before puberty so would make it difficult to differentiate between the sexes.

@SliceOfCakeCupOfTea was it you who asked about bone density?

"Puberty blockers stunted the height and impaired the bone mass density of children wishing to change gender, researchers have found."

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/puberty-blockers-stunt-bone-growth-of-children-tlv8qmdcd

Taken from GIDS research:

Couldn't you have read one of the hundreds of threads that already exist on this issue though 🤷‍♂️

[quote Giraffesandbottoms]**@SliceOfCakeCupOfTea* and @Waitwhat23*

Thank you so much for doing some googling on this - glad I’m not the only one who finds it fascinating![/quote]
I used to love watching Bones back when it was on TV and was always amazed how she could identify so much detail from a skeleton (although I appreciate they had some artistic licence with the facts!)

@LondonWolf

You have a problem with transwomen, and don't for a second say you don't. You don't get to decide how they identify, thankfully and never will.

I couldn't care less how anyone chooses to identify but when it comes to my teenage daughter never having the choice of when and in what context she sees male genitals then I am afraid it stops there.

This.

Humans cannot change sex.

Sex matters.

Women’s sex based rights are rooted in our biological reality.

Pretending that the physical, biological difference between men and women no longer exists (or never existed according to gender identity activists) demolishes our ability to uphold and protect our rights.

[quote NutsOhHazelnuts]@SliceOfCakeCupOfTea was it you who asked about bone density?

"Puberty blockers stunted the height and impaired the bone mass density of children wishing to change gender, researchers have found."

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/puberty-blockers-stunt-bone-growth-of-children-tlv8qmdcd

Taken from GIDS research:
[/quote]
It was thanks!

bones.fandom.com/wiki/The_He_in_the_She#:~:text=The%20He%20in%20the%20She%20is%20the%20seventh,the%20fourth%20season%20of%20Bones.

Springs to mind actually!

@Snowisfalling33

Couldn't you have read one of the hundreds of threads that already exist on this issue though 🤷‍♂️

I'm glad to see new threads regularly on the main boards because I remember a few years back when the majority of posters on here were telling anyone with concerns around these issues that they were bigoted, transphobic, backward blah blah blah. Things have certainly changed as reality hit and women began to realise what the cost of mindlessly chanting "Trans Women Are Women!" actually is. I'm very glad to see mainstream discussion despite the best efforts of trans rights activists to shut it down.

Absolutely right. A man is a man whether he has a penis or not. You cannot change your DNA just because you “feel” like something else.

@theqentity

I have friends who are trans women. They are women. None of them want to beat your daughters at tennis or taunt you in the bogs. They just want to live in a way that feels most authentic to them.

Not true. Different sport but there is a transwoman participating with the women. I highly doubt they're happy to lose.

No you are right! It’s a mental illness - nobody can change sex. It’s no different to claiming to be black, disabled etc it’s an insult to women.

@twomumsonebump @theqentity

In what way are transwomen women? Can you explain it to me?

Transwomen are not women. They are men who for various reasons want to live a life without the constraints of the gender stereotypes imposed upon men. Like all people, they deserve to be treated with respect. It is not possible to change sex and the law should reflect that reality.

Surely this can't go on like it is, there has to be crunch time when some brave soul(s) manage to get our women only environments back to how they should be. I.e. for women/girls only. For safety and sanity reasons. It is so depressing to even think about how we're being put at risk, either that or having to avoid living our lives how we want to, for fear of seeing non females in changing rooms/toilets/hospital wards/etc. It's blatantly obvious males are going to use the situation to their advantage.

Why are we having to put up with it, is any politician taking up the cause?

I am not against anybody wanting to believe they are the opposite of the sex they were born as, so long as it doesn't impact on other people's lives in a detrimental way. Which currently it does!

@twomumsonebump

Transphobic adjective Having or showing a dislike of or prejudice against transsexual or transgender people.

Trans women are women. Trans men are men. Y'all are just transphobic but won't admit to it.

What I dislike is women's hard fought rights being eroded. I dislike how women's spaces (prisons, changing rooms etc), sports, prizes, shortlists are being taken over by men who identify as women. I dislike how same sex attracted women are being told they need to include males. I dislike how the word woman is being eroded from policies. How we can't talk about our unique biology. I dislike how all this is being framed as transphobic.

They are women.

No, they're not. They're biological men.

None of them want to beat your daughters at tennis or taunt you in the bogs.

Of course. I'm sure that's true of the majority. The problem is with the ones who do want this and the fact that the law allows them to.

They just want to live in a way that feels most authentic to them

I one hundred percent support them in this, up until the point where I'm being asked to pretend that people can change their sex.