Dare I ask - the trans issue?

[shoplifteroftheworld]

How do people feel about the 'trans women are women' idea?

A friend recently said I was a TERF which I'm not but I don't agree that a man in his 50's who suddenly identifies as female and wears a dress has any idea of what it is to be truly female.

Feeling that you are trapped in the wrong body must be hell and the surgery one goes through is extreme to say the least. But it doesn't make you the opposite sex to the one you were born as.

Am I getting this wrong?

Cracking post Artichokeleaves

I think children are being used to sanitise AGP in
mainly middle aged men.

An honest conversation on the matter seems to be very hard to have on the subject. When real concern and genuine fear from women is treated as hate then, well I don't know, but it's a strange time right now.

@LondonWolf

I think children are being used to sanitise AGP in mainly middle aged men.

I agree.

@DrSbaitso

But some people say that they do, and who am I to tell them how they feel?

Woman is not a feeling. The state of being female cannot be identified in or out of.

If it could, I'm sure all female rape victims would identify out of it to prevent the attack. I'd identify out of my birth injuries.

On that note, it has been mentioned before that a transman (i.e. biologically female) was raped. They said to their attacker "but you can't rape me, I'm a man". Needless to say, that didn't stop him. A terrible demonstration that you really cannot identify your way out of oppression.

@twomumsonebump

Transphobic adjective Having or showing a dislike of or prejudice against transsexual or transgender people.

Trans women are women. Trans men are men. Y'all are just transphobic but won't admit to it.

Please do point out where this has happened.

Challenging or questioning something doesn't make one discriminatory or mean that one dislikes something. Also, believing in biology over forces compelled speech and beliefs also doesn't meet that criteria.

@Squidgames4U

Whether or not trans women are women, I am in the camp that believes they should be treated as women in society. Their experiences will be different, but my experiences will be very different to yours.

My husband is a biological man ... can he have the same access and additional entitlements that you believe a TW should have?

@Lordamighty

Humans can’t change sex.

> waits for someone to pipe up that "science has moved in since he studied it, though "

@No1MummyJacky

Honestly You all need to get a life, if my son decided he wanted to be a woman I would still love her she would just be my daughter where do you Conservative weirdo's get off assuming you have the right to decide what others can be, drink your wine, send your minion memes, and Live Love Laugh away that emptiness you feel.

Stop embarrassing yourself.

@No1MummyJacky

Honestly You all need to get a life, if my son decided he wanted to be a woman I would still love her she would just be my daughter where do you Conservative weirdo's get off assuming you have the right to decide what others can be, drink your wine, send your minion memes, and Live Love Laugh away that emptiness you feel.

When you find an argument instead of insults come back and share it.

Until then, i remain somewhat unconvinced by your point.

@No1MummyJacky you’re taking the mickey, right? Please say you are, no one could say that with a straight face.

[quote Gosports]@No1MummyJacky you’re taking the mickey, right? Please say you are, no one could say that with a straight face.[/quote]
Oh, I don't think for one second that it's serious, but that doesn't mean the poster isn't embarrassing themselves.

I knew this meme would come in handy at one point!

And minion memes? Seriously?

“No1MummyJacky
Honestly You all need to get a life, if my son decided he wanted to be a woman I would still love her she would just be my daughter where do you Conservative weirdo's get off assuming you have the right to decide what others can be, drink your wine, send your minion memes, and Live Love Laugh away that emptiness you feel.“

I don’t know how old your son is, but before a child is an adult, their parents owe it to them to not automatically go along with them taking any action which might cause them harm, or affect their life adversely forever; their parents owe them a duty of care to try to find out all possible sources of distress that might be causing them to doubt themselves; their parents owe them a duty of care to protect them from thoughtless conforming to peer pressure.

Their parents would feel they had a duty of care for these things whether they were about taking drugs, driving dangerously, being in an abusive relationship, not eating because of anorexia, not bothering to go to school, picking up a popular ideology uncritically. A parent taking care of their children in this way is an adult, loving parent.

The kind you are talking about is more like an on-line, social media ‘like’-friend who is swayed by the latest fashions.

As a psychologist, I believe you are mixing up the difference between gender and sex.
Sex is something you are born with and sadly something you cannot change, gender on the other hand is a social concept, this is why different cultures have different ideas of what is masculine and feminine.

Now, if someone who is born a man (a natal male) want to transition to be a woman that is then changing gender. Now I can understand that some women are adverse to accepting trans women,”men have everything, why can they take this from us?”
But that’s not the point. These are WOMEN, the are not MEN. If a natal man genuinely wants to be a woman, it’s our duty to accept her and help her and love her. If a man dresses up as a woman to sexually assault people, that’s a different matter, but that’s rarer than a genuine trans woman. A lot of trans woman deal with the same problems we have AND they have their own as well.

Let’s not make it harder for them girls!!!!!
Lets not oppress woman who deserve our love!!!!

This person isn't serious. They've overegged it like the world's worst episode of Bake Off. They just see that it's something we take seriously so they're trying to make a joke of it by lowering the tone with an overtly dumbarse post. And it is indeed stupid, but not for the reasons they think.

Don't encourage him.

@No1MummyJacky we're all desperately waiting for your well-researched views on whether Darren Agee Merager should be able to sit next to a nine year old girl in the women's section of a spa proudly showing off his penis.

But then I look at the post you made on a naming thread an hour ago (which along with the two on this thread makes up your sum total of three posts ever) and I don't expect a sensible response.

There are minimal risk in letting your child wear a dress, when people believe they should wear trousers.
Thigh highs aren’t drugs. Binders aren’t self harming. NOT letting trans children be themselves leads to more suicides, self harm and abuse.
You thinking like this makes it worst for them, this thinking leads to bullying.
Please rethink what is dangerous to your child. These are uk trans suicide statistics, these are comparable to most places in the states as well if that is applicable

www.stonewall.org.uk/sites/default/files/trans_stats.pdf

These are WOMEN, the are not MEN
@Mumisntmyrealname please list the things which a transwoman has in common with women, that they don't have in common with men.

it’s our duty to...
No. Women owe men nothing. Women are not support humans.

...but that’s rarer than...
You claim to be a psychologist. I therefore assume that you attended a university. Unless a claim is a generally accepted or observable fact (such as "the Earth is round"), it is customary to provide a source to back up your statement. Please do so.

These are WOMEN, the are not MEN.

This is your belief. I respect that you believe it, but I do not share it and I expect the reciprocal respect as I would you to not demand that I repeat there is only one God and I believe in the Father, the son and the holy spirit.

If a natal man genuinely wants to be a woman, it’s our duty to accept her and help her and love her.

Again, this is your belief.

I would appreciate your explaining why helping and loving a male means excluding female people and removing female and sex based rights? Because this would indicate that this male person outweighs the equality of access and inclusion of females. Which is a sex based decision, which really demonstrates that you do not perceive this person as a woman like any other woman, nor do you believe in the need to help and love those in need of additional support.

These people can be loved, appreciated and helped without destroying provision for females and excluding them in the process.

This is

[quote Mumisntmyrealname]There are minimal risk in letting your child wear a dress, when people believe they should wear trousers.
Thigh highs aren’t drugs. Binders aren’t self harming. NOT letting trans children be themselves leads to more suicides, self harm and abuse.
You thinking like this makes it worst for them, this thinking leads to bullying.
Please rethink what is dangerous to your child. These are uk trans suicide statistics, these are comparable to most places in the states as well if that is applicable

www.stonewall.org.uk/sites/default/files/trans_stats.pdf[/quote]
@Mumisntmyrealname you are just demonstrating that you haven't even read the thread.

There are minimal risk in letting your child wear a dress, when people believe they should wear trousers.
Who said there was? You won't find anyone here telling you what you can and can't wear, though caricatures are offensive.

Thigh highs aren’t drugs.
I've no idea what you're getting at here, aren't 'thigh highs' a design of footwear? In which case what have they got to do with anything?

Binders aren’t self harming.
They're not quite the same thing as cutting, no. They still do harm to the wearer.

NOT letting trans children be themselves leads to more suicides, self harm and abuse.
Can you provide a source which specifically states whether suicide is actually caused by a failure to affirm?

Please rethink what is dangerous to your child.
'Jessica' Brennan is a danger to children.
'Hannah' Tubbs is a danger to children.
'Katie' Dolatowski is a danger to children.
Drugs prescribed over Skype by Romanian doctors working for GenderGP are a danger to children.