Dare I ask - the trans issue?

[shoplifteroftheworld]

How do people feel about the 'trans women are women' idea?

A friend recently said I was a TERF which I'm not but I don't agree that a man in his 50's who suddenly identifies as female and wears a dress has any idea of what it is to be truly female.

Feeling that you are trapped in the wrong body must be hell and the surgery one goes through is extreme to say the least. But it doesn't make you the opposite sex to the one you were born as.

Am I getting this wrong?

I asked in site stuff if this could return to AIBU, where it was posted originally. I don’t know if there was a poll, but it should definitely return there for a wider response.

How can they be women exactly?

No one ever answers this question.

How exactly can they be women?

@Scraggythang

“A friend recently said I was a TERF which I’m not but…” you are. Get comfortable with it. Nothing you say will make you anything other than a transphobic bigot from here on out. But that’s ok. Your assertions are factual. Better to tell the truth and all that.

This sort of baseless name calling really doesn't cut it anymore. Women are waking up. It's not enough to just yell "transphobe! TERF! Bigot!" So much damage has been done to the LGBTQ cause by this ridiculous demand that everyone denies biology.

No one ever answers this question.

We're supposed to agree that how they feel in their head overrides all the totally unambiguous biological markers that have been used to determine sex since the dawn of time.

What I don't understand is why that idea only applies to sex? Why can't we identify as dogs or goldfish or Inuit or blind etc if biological fact matters so little?

My general feeling is people say they are but until recently nobody meant literally.
Most things in life (your clothes, job, interests, name, appearance etc) has no relevance to your biology and I'd argue that anybody has the right to engage with these things however they see fit.
Some things in life (how you perform in sport for example, how vulnerable you are semi clothed ) are directly linked to biology which is why we've had sex based segregation for years and it's ridiculous to ignore these differences and pretend they don't exist.
What infuriates me is this should be a male problem. The whole reason we're reluctant to open up segregated spaces is because of male violence. I have no way of knowing if the person with a penis in my changing room is harmless or predatory, but I'm a dick if I object. I'd love to just hand this problem back to the men and ask them to kindly solve their issues then I'll happily let the ones that feel like a woman into my spaces.

So many important things to discuss re these issues. I'm so pleased to see posters raising them. Of course the threads will be moved. But the mainstream wants to discuss this topic, so there will be others. Thanks for your post OP. Thd "break it down" thread is a specialist library on this topic. Factual, scientific, and academic links and intelligent compassionate discussion. Welcome to the resistance against redefining womanhood.

@Giraffesandbottoms

They are not women. As I told the Lib Dem man who came to my door today.

We should ask every politician who comes to our doors whether they believe TWAW. Make them know we women are mad as hell about this.

@Scraggythang

“A friend recently said I was a TERF which I’m not but…” you are. Get comfortable with it. Nothing you say will make you anything other than a transphobic bigot from here on out. But that’s ok. Your assertions are factual. Better to tell the truth and all that.

Perhaps you are the actual transphobe here though? You seem to think that owning being trans is a problem?

There is nothing inherently wrong with an adult being a transwoman or transman. Own it and I will fight for your rights alongside you.

A just fight for rights never involves shitting on a marginalised group and leveraging the power you have over them (the structural and physical power transwomen have over women) to do so.

But I refuse to believe all transwomen are like this. I question the motives of the posters who assert that transwomen need to trample on women's boundaries.

@EishetChayil to be clear, I agree. But that fact is that this will be what you will be called when making even the most innocuous of comments, as OP has done. Does it mean you are transphobic bigot in any real sense? No. But to anyone with belief gender ideology, you are. Although it’s practically lost all meaning at this point.

@PaleGreenGhost

Except inheriting titles of course. That's not open to transmen. Tells you so much about a country's priorities that that was the one place the government drew the line.

That was they didn’t want men’s inheritance privilege to be gone in favour of women’s equality.

What is AGP?

We can't really answer that without risking a deletion or being banned. The misogynistic monitors do not like that being discussed on here.

Ok managed to find!

I do like it when yet another person has to look into what it is. And we will be told that it doesn’t exist until the cows come home… but it’s very recognisable.

Goodness knows why there is a ban on discussing AGP. I guess it's just way too revealing. Sweep it all away and hide it. Plenty of info out there on t'internet anyway.

Well thanks for alerting me, very interesting

The main motivation for most things seem to be sex and money - AGP makes sense to me!

But I refuse to believe all transwomen are like this. I question the motives of the posters who assert that transwomen need to trample on women's boundaries.

The thing is, I would be absolutely delighted to see evidence of this. I would be delighted to see TQ+ charities such as Stonewall sharing outrage at the rape of women by TW and insisting that this is not part of their belief or movement and helping to support those women and find other ways. I would be over the moon to see TW voicing that female people who cannot access mixed sex spaces must not be excluded or subordinated to TQ+ need and female only spaces must be provided for alongside TQ+ needs being met, and TQ+ people should respect that female people have needs too.

I could go read happier stuff and not have to spend so much time frantically fighting for women's rights, against every new initiative and attempt to rip them away for the benefit of male people. It would mean the world if this was an actually inclusive movement and TW were out there helping make this work for all of us, and make this a happy, positive thing instead of a nightmare.

But other than the occasional lone voice - who are viciously attacked by the TQ+ lobby - and those voices are also not supporting female need but their own need and often the interest as demonstrated on many threads here, is on getting females to draw the line to include that particular poster rather than about care for female issues. It's beyond clear: TW may identify as women as a class but the TW movement has zero interest or care for females as a class, there is damn all sisterhood. Rape threats, death threats, rage, dismissal, derogation, silencing, lying and misleading, excluding.....? I can find all that behaviour daily, in floods, it's everywhere.

So no, I will not apologise for being exhausted, angered, and having pattern recognition skills. If these people exist it's up to them to try and do something now, drastic, to reverse the appalling optics and harm that the TQ+ political lobby has done in relations with women. It's not the job of biological females to do the extra leg work for everyone else as some kind of birthright.

*To be very clear, when I mention rape I am specifically referring to the known rape and sexual assaults within women's prisons. I could also mention the assaults in toilets and incidents such as the assault of Maria Mclaughlan however.

AGP has zero prevalence amongst teenage females suffering from dysphoria.

We can't discuss it for obvious reasons.

What Artichoke said 👏👏👏