What rights don't trans and nb people have?

[AlternativelyWired]

Manchester councillor readies motion on improving trans rights across city www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/its-time-more-manchester-councillor-22950927

The article doesn't specify except to say the motion wants the council to state twaw.

They want the right to access health services quicker than anyone else
Where does it say that?
All the article linked says is that they want easier access to healthcare.
Not that they expect it quicker than everyone else?!

Missed the bit where they said demanded it free too?

The demands were posted on page 1 of this thread.

• We will have universally accessible and freely available hormones & blockers, surgical procedures, and any other relevant treatments and therapies

• We demand hormones & blockers are made available over-the-counter and by free prescription upon request

• We demand the free & timely provision of genital surgeries, additive & reductive chest surgeries, hysterectomies and orchiectomies, tracheal & vocal surgeries, facial surgeries, lipoplasty, contouring & microdermabrasion, surgical hair removal & transplantation, and any other possible procedure to meet our needs as we express them.

I suppose the only small mercy is that the Council have openly said that their policy is TWAW, TMAM etc which gives female voters an informed choice about who to vote for in the next election, if they believe in single sex spaces and women's rights.

The Scottish Government were censured by a judge in a recent court case for stating that their policy is TWAW, TMAM etc despite the fact that there are no records of this being publicised to the general public, no discussions or consultations and no documents of any kind stating this.

That 'manifesto' of demands is ridiculous but unsurprising, particularly as it was cooked up in Edinburgh.

The demands were posted on page 1 of this thread
We will have universally accessible and freely available hormones & blockers, surgical procedures, and any other relevant treatments and therapies
Oh OK, thanks
I read that as freely available as in easy to get like any other medication though, not that it means literally get it for free

@EeeICouldRipATissue

The demands were posted on page 1 of this thread We will have universally accessible and freely available hormones & blockers, surgical procedures, and any other relevant treatments and therapies Oh OK, thanks I read that as freely available as in easy to get like any other medication though, not that it means literally get it for free

But unless you are talking about paracetamol and antihistamines, medication is not 'freely available in that sense either.

@EeeICouldRipATissue

You've missed out the other points which @yourhairiswinterfire posted -

• We demand hormones & blockers are made available over-the-counter and by free prescription upon request

• We demand the free & timely provision of genital surgeries, additive & reductive chest surgeries, hysterectomies and orchiectomies, tracheal & vocal surgeries, facial surgeries, lipoplasty, contouring & microdermabrasion, surgical hair removal & transplantation, and any other possible procedure to meet our needs as we express them

My bolds. It seems fairly clear that these refer to free of charge rather than freely available, which was stated explicitly in the only point which you quoted.

We demand an end to birth certificates and to legal gender.

Are they asking for BCs in their entirety to be scrapped or 'just' for the box that gives the baby's sex to be dropped? If we're going to scrap BCs, why not everything else: passports, driving licences, NI numbers, property ownership deeds, employment contracts? In what sane modern world would anybody dream that having no record of people's actual existence is a wise idea?!

However, I 100% agree that there should be no such thing as 'legal gender', as it causes no end of problems and confusion. So much easier to just keep the records of people's biological sex - as we traditionally always did - and keep 'gender' identity and expression (whatever that is) for social purposes only.

But I'm confused: wasn't it the TRAs who originally fought for and demanded that we obfuscate sex and gender and pretend that they're the same thing? I don't imagine for a moment that any of us who are quite content to have our sex recorded as either male or female, corresponding wholly with our biological anatomy, were the driving force behind the demands that 'legal gender' ever even be a thing. It does very much seem like they're trying to blame the vast majority for agreeing to something that they insisted on in the first place, that only they ever actually wanted.

I can’t believe that anyone is defending this ridiculous rambling word vomit of “ME ME ME”…!

I also can’t believe what sort of deluded mind would think this up, let alone commit it to writing.

@SomeOwlsCoo

They have the same rights as everyone else.

But (some) trans and NB people want more.

This. Completely. And want to infringe on womens rights. There should be mens, womens and trans rights. Trans women should not be included in womens as they simply aren't women, same for trans men.

What I don't get is: let's say you are a transwoman. You have become a woman. Well, welcome to a woman's world, where chronic pain is ignored (the gender pain gap: men get painkillers in A&E quicker than women with abdominal pain. 16 minutes quicker, on average gender pain gap ) Where women get paid less (the gender pay gap). Where women get smaller pensions, where women get.....and so on.

So they either want women's rights to be advanced, or they don't actually want to be women. The cognitive dissonance is boggling.

Good god that list

Complete bonkers. You cannot have healthcare based on wants and demands fgs. Medicines are regulated fir a reason. Drs and pharmacists have to ask questions. 2 people the same age the same sex with the same condition may need 2 entirely different treatments.

Until they acknowledge the side effects and problems that these medications cause they should have no say in it what so ever. Even water can kill you. Informed consent is a must. Which means accepting side affects exist .

Just responding to OP.

It's not that they are lacking in any rights at all. It's just that women have rights men don't and they don't like it because they don't like women.

@JustcameoutGC

We demand all pears are cutted up

This is all too familiar.

White, male councillor under 40. Check.
Council in need of serious scrutiny and policy over crime rates and delivering stat services. Check.
"Easy" motion that has little real impact on high stress local issues. Check.
Motion that echoes fashionable cultural issues. Check.

This is how these types think politics is done. Sometimes, I seriously think we'd be better off with a bunch of 19th century top-hatted capitalists. At least the roads would be better, the crime rate lower, and while children in care might not get a second helping of porridge, at least they would be safe from grooming gangs.

@EeeICouldRipATissue

The demands were posted on page 1 of this thread We will have universally accessible and freely available hormones & blockers, surgical procedures, and any other relevant treatments and therapies Oh OK, thanks I read that as freely available as in easy to get like any other medication though, not that it means literally get it for free

Do you support that manifesto by AfTH, Eee? You think it's reasonable?

@JustcameoutGC

We demand all pears are cutted up

You win the thread 🤣🤣🤣

Seriously though that manifesto… don’t know whether to laugh or cry

The idea that any teen should be able to go and buy hormones the second they have a desire to play with gender is just horrific. Never mind the potential life long irreversible consequences eh.

@SingToTheSky

The idea that any teen should be able to go and buy hormones the second they have a desire to play with gender is just horrific. Never mind the potential life long irreversible consequences eh.

AfTH doesn't suggest a teen go and buy hormones. They should get them for free! Whatever medication they want! Whenever they want it!

Who are the people behind this ?
Just randoms or people with a bit of clout and institutional stamps 9f approval?

@1Week

Who are the people behind this ? Just randoms or people with a bit of clout and institutional stamps 9f approval?

People who will make money from the people they manipulated into thinking like this perhaps.

All medical professionals are wrong and against us.
We will do our own surgery and medication.
We Demand that all trans surgeries and medication are 100% safe and well-researched...

IMO it isn't just about "what legal rights do transpeople have", it's also about the stigma and prejudice they may face.

An example off the top of my head look at the number of complaints the Girl Guides received after appointing a transwoman leader.

More recently, Kellie-Jay Keen made a complaint to the police regarding one of their voluntary transwoman constables for wearing make-up and nail polish. (The complaint wasn't upheld as discretion is permitted for voluntary officers as they may have other commitments and may be required to go on duty at short notice.)

I've seen "AGP" being associated with transwomen a few times on various platforms and I think it's a bit offensive.

I think what @MargaritaPie is saying is that transwomen have special rights and we should all just be quiet and not talk about safeguarding issues or double standards.