Lia Thomas (again)

[Signalbox]

Reports that Lia Thomas has been exposing themselves to female team mates and that they have complained and been ignored on multiple occasions...

"While Lia covers herself with a towel sometimes, there’s a decent amount of nudity, the swimmer said. She and others have had a glimpse at her private parts."

"She stated that team members have raised their concern with the coach, trying to get Thomas ousted from the female locker room, but got nowhere."

"Multiple swimmers have raised it, multiple different times,' the UPenn swimmer said. 'But we were basically told that we could not ostracize Lia by not having her in the locker room and that there's nothing we can do about it, that we basically have to roll over and accept it, or we cannot use our own locker room."

"It's really upsetting because Lia doesn't seem to care how it makes anyone else feel,' the swimmer continued. 'The 35 of us are just supposed to accept being uncomfortable in our own space and locker room for, like, the feelings of one."

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10445679/Lia-Thomas-UPenn-teammate-says-trans-swimmer-doesnt-cover-genitals-locker-room.html#comments

dons cheerleader garb

Give us an A! Give us a G! Give us a P for prohibited terms we cannot utter on MN.

its america, there is no left there so I dont know what the left have to do with anything when the nearest thing to the left they have is right wing centrists

It’s America. The Democrats support this. You may not see them as the left. Fair enough. But in the UK, Labour, the Greens, the Lib Dems all think a British version of Lia Thomas is right and the women who don’t want to see the penis of the British version of Lia Thomas are all horrible bigots. So yes, it has a lot to do with everything.

It strikes me that this is now getting so bad that the women are going to have to take collective action, whatever the risks to their swimming careers are: after all, they are already at risk because of this swimmer of losing college places and race wins.

There are 35 of them - more than enough to bodily remove this person from the changing room. What will the authorities do? Ban all 35 of them? Charge all 35 with assault? That would be a massive PR disaster for the authorities.

It may sound mad but I am more and more convinced that this is the sort of action that is now necessary. If the sports authorities won't stand up for female sport the women themselves are going to have to do it sooner or later.

its america, there is no left there so I dont know what the left have to do with anything when the nearest thing to the left they have is right wing centrists

Maybe, but shit like this is what will drive the US FURTHER to the right.

If it’s the suburbs that won for Biden last election it’s suburban families learning about Lia and Lia’s exposed penis in female changing rooms AND the Loudoun county rapes that will lose it for Biden next time round.

@nolongersurprised

its america, there is no left there so I dont know what the left have to do with anything when the nearest thing to the left they have is right wing centrists

Maybe, but shit like this is what will drive the US FURTHER to the right.

If it’s the suburbs that won for Biden last election it’s suburban families learning about Lia and Lia’s exposed penis in female changing rooms AND the Loudoun county rapes that will lose it for Biden next time round.

We've all got rights....except women obviously 😡🤬

It's in the name Lia(r)

I think "progressives" is what they are called, as nobody want to be seen to be on the "left" in the USA, a country that views free healthcare as Communism. But, like so many terms with these people, "progressive" is such a misnomer for a group seeking to elevate the rights of (mostly) white, (mostly) middle class males above the rights of all others.

Rape culture

In a nutshell.

@BreadInCaptivity

Ok let's be careful here.

We've no evidence at all about erections and to be honest if we did, whilst that would very disturbing, it's enough in and of itself that many of the female swimmers have had their discomfort in sharing a locker with a person with a penis dismissed/ignored by training staff and said person (who it seems is "careless" of hiding the evidence of their masculinity whilst demanding their validation as a female both socially and competitively).

It serves no useful purpose to make assumptions other than to play into TRA hands^^ in being able to say "it didn't happen".

What has been reported by a female member of the swim team doesn't need exaggerated speculation.

Women should be able to access single sex spaces and not be pressured to putting up with discomfort and distress so as to pacify/validate/be kind to a man, regardless of whether their penis is erect (or even on show) or not.

I'm glad at least one person appears to have some integrity. There is no evidence whatsoever that she has been walking round with an erection, on the contrary the piece suggests she covers up but may have accidentally revealed herself on occassion. The assumptions on this thread that this means she is a predator, sexually motivated, or a criminal are both disgusting and deeply transphobic. incidentally if she is meeting the hormone requirement to swim on the women's team it is highly unlikely she is developing spontaneous erections in the changing rooms - it never ceases to amaze me how ignorant people who claim to speak with such authority on trans issues are about the very basics of trans bodies.

If it is true that the gender critical movement is largely of the left then I would hope they would appraise this story with the same critical eye they would were it a Daily Mail story about any other minority. For years the paper has used stories based on anonymous sources to whip up hatred towards refugees, lone parents, benefit claimants and other minority groups and now they appear to be doing the same to trans people. The beauty of a story based on an anonymous source is that the journalist is no longer writing a story on what is the truth but simply reporting on what an individual says is the truth. And a good journalist with a generous cheque book can often coerce an interveiwee into saying pretty much whatever they want - one of the reasons editors would once rarely publish stories based on anonymous sources though the right wing press long abandoned such integrity.

A large part of the story is pure speculation - that she threw the race. and note how they drag in the trans male swimmer and basically accuse him of being part of a conspiracy to cheat with to evidence whatsoever. We have no real idea at all what other team mates think because it is merely hearsay - and they use the other common Daily Mail technique of salting the earth in advance - no-one dare say anything in case they are accused of ... racism/sexism/transphobia (delete as appropriate). This is used to undermine anyone who might turn up claiming the story is untrue.

And finally, and most concerningly this story does not meet the very basic ethical journalistic standards. Where's the right of reply, from both Lia and UPenn? That this hasn't been sought by the journalist undermines everything that comes before - almost as if they didn't want anyone to have the chance to challenge or correct the narrative. It is a very poor story from a journalistic perspective which has all the hallmarks of a Daily Mail stitch up and as such I will reserve judgement just as I have on the claims of broken glass behind stickers because when a story is too good to be true, doesn't offer a right of reply, speculates wildly and makes no attempt to seek sources who might go on record, or contradict the narrative then it is not journalism, it is propaganda and should be treated as such.

Glinner talking about yesterday. He agrees with you, PatsArrow, rape culture.

I'd like barely to tell us and ALL women what right does any male have to be undressed in a single sex space.

I, personally, don't care if this person has an erection or not.

They are a male in a single sex space getting undressed.

Their team mates have complained. They don't want a mixed sex space to get changed. Why do those females not have any rights here? They have been told to STFU. How is that acceptable.

Please tell us barley.

The assumptions on this thread that this means she is a predator, sexually motivated, or a criminal are both disgusting and deeply transphobic.

I don't care about Lia's motivations, I care that Lia is male and sharing changing facilities with females who feel uncomfortable with it and are having their concerns dismissed.

And finally, and most concerningly this story does not meet the very basic ethical journalistic standards.

The sheer brass neck of someone supporting a male in female sports and changing rooms talking about "basic ethical standards".

@Helleofabore exactly.

I don’t care if Lia had a hard on or not. At 19 or 20, I would have felt hellishly uncomfortable taking my clothes off in front of an intact male, regardless of gender identity or whether there was actually a threat.

Why does Lia’s comfort take priority over that of his female team mates?

And why doesn’t Lia - as any decent person would - recognise that discomfort and change elsewhere? Is it only female bodied people who are expected to #bekind?

The women team mates have been told they can get mental health support

Why is a man allowed to be in womens changing rooms making the women feel uncomfortable.

We have communal changing rooms at work. (NHS - scrubs). I know that our trainees find it awkward to see the ancient and wrinkly bosses like me in their undercrackers, and even more awkward to strip off around the boss, so I wait to go in til they’re done. It’s called consideration.

If I can do this, why can’t Lia?

The only possible reason for the quote from the female swimmer referring in the same sentence to Lia's lady penis with Lia still being attracted to women is transphobia. Nothing whatsoever to do with the blindingly obvious reality of what can happen to penises both of the common and lady variety when in the presence of someone they find attractive.

So no, we don't know and we can't say it, but we can think it very very loudly.

Don't worry, @barleybadminton, Thomas is apparently going to get a "right of reply" as they are planning to tell their story to Sports Illustrated as per this NYTimes article

www.nytimes.com/2022/01/24/sports/lia-thomas-transgender-swimmer.html

I'm glad at least one person appears to have some integrity

Lol

A large part of the story is pure speculation - that she threw the race.

Given her earlier times ,her incredibly poor performance , despite no apparent injury, is at the very least unexpected. If I were the coach, I would be having a serious word with Lia about this obvious lack of effort.

Right to reply, Barely?

Where is the fucking RIGHT of the women in this scenario who are too scared, intimidated and frightened of losing their place and being cancelled? This person has spoken up anonymously because they KNOW what would happen to them if they revealed who they were. Why can't they speak up, where is their right to state what is happening? Why do they have to speak in innuendos and insinuations? Well, its because they know what would happen to them if they were transparent about it.

I knew someone would be along to justify this.
It's fucking sick. You talk about integrity. How about this male person who has NO integrity? Even if the exposure was 'accidental' they KNOW that their team-mates are uncomfortable sharing the facilities with them. Why can't they change in another room?
Can you answer that?

Re barley's post, the idea of a 'her' having an erection... 🤯🤯🤯🤯
Hers don't have those. Hers bleed and make babies.
Or does that count as hate-filled bile that will have Gwent cops round in a twinkling? While elsewhere in the country a woman is stabbed to death in the street by an ex-partner that the cops either couldn't or wouldn't detain, restrain or keep an eye on.

What are the demographics of the support for this sort of thing in the USA? Here, it's Ivy League, so I'd guess very white, upper middle/upper class?

The highest social status is now conferred not by wealth but by showing how good and kind you are and by adhering to the ideologies of the day such as genderism/critical social justice etc.

It should come as no surprise then, that this nonsense is rife amongst the middle/upper classes - they invented it, they have infected our institutions and culture with it, they get to feel righteously good about themselves by indulging it (liberal narcissism) and best of all none of it threatens their wealth, power and privilege - indeed a white, straight, wealthy male can become the most marginalised and oppressed by claiming one of a number of gender identities and weaponising that supposed fragility accordingly.

incidentally if she is meeting the hormone requirement to swim on the women's team it is highly unlikely she is developing spontaneous erections in the changing rooms - it never ceases to amaze me how ignorant people who claim to speak with such authority on trans issues are about the very basics of trans bodies

Many trans women take the smallest amount of oestrogen which allows sexual function. If you are not ignorant about the basics of trans bodies then you must know this.

There won't be any testosterone level testing for training, that is only done for competition, and for big competition for that matter.

So, yes, Lia could well have been sexually aroused at the sight of team mates in a state of undress. Which isn't the point. The point is that the team mates don't want male people in their changing room.

They said "no".

They don't get what they want, Lia does.

And, I'll bet you one of my HRT patches that Lia was behaving in a way that was not quietly-getting-changed-with-discretion-and-consideration-of-team-mates-privacy.

Have you met men? Have you no insight into how men who push women's boundaries behave? We know what Lia was doing because Lia is not original. Not at all.

@terryleather

What are the demographics of the support for this sort of thing in the USA? Here, it's Ivy League, so I'd guess very white, upper middle/upper class?

The highest social status is now conferred not by wealth but by showing how good and kind you are and by adhering to the ideologies of the day such as genderism/critical social justice etc.

It should come as no surprise then, that this nonsense is rife amongst the middle/upper classes - they invented it, they have infected our institutions and culture with it, they get to feel righteously good about themselves by indulging it (liberal narcissism) and best of all none of it threatens their wealth, power and privilege - indeed a white, straight, wealthy male can become the most marginalised and oppressed by claiming one of a number of gender identities and weaponising that supposed fragility accordingly.

Indeed. How marginalised and oppressed are they in actuality though? We already know that the statistics constantly quoted by the TRAs regarding suicide and murder in the trans community are spurious at best and downright intentionally misleading at worst.