Woman on ward - complains about male patient. Is discharged.

[KittenKong]

Going on twitter. She was in a Women’s ward (signage says ‘women’ but later this was disputed by staff).

Another patient on ward ‘Annie’ (not real name). Visitor comes in ‘Hello Fred’.

Woman patient complains that there is a male in the ward. Staff come on handed and tell her that there isn’t (and that there were no single sec wards) - and treated as if she is a troublemaker.

Woman mysteriously discharged PDQ, although not quite feeling well enough in herself.

twitter.com/gillyism/status/1486596070096478209?s=21

Baroness is on the case.

@barleybadminton “masculine looking women” - so you’re staying that there ARE biological differences between men and women and how they look. How very transphobic of you.

And should hospital staff be checking people's genitals when not medically necessary to ensure they are placed in the ward which aligns with their birth sex?

What, you're saying men are likely to lie about their sex so they can be placed on a female ward?
No really? 😲
Well you could have knocked me down with a feather.

The thread seems to have been deleted, but I read some of it before it went.

It was the most bizarre thread I've ever seen. I find it very strange to see that although she was discharged, there was a follow up where someone (I have no idea who) gave irrefutable proof that the person on the ward was a definite, natal, female, woman.

The reason I find it so bizarre isn't whether or not the woman in question was confused, misled, treated well or badly, but that someone from the hospital would release another patient's information in order to prove/disprove their sex.

Whatever happened here, the outcome is very, very strange.

If mixed-sex wards are so great for everyone why isn't it publicised rather than hidden?

Why not have signs at the entrance saying 'Mixed Sex Ward' so everyone knows where they stand?

Is it because most people don't like the idea of them and still assume they are single-sex?

There would be uproar if the truth was actually said out loud.

Though I do agree that not knowing whether a ward is mixed sex or not is going to increase women's anxiety, and is going to result in more misunderstandings (at a minimum).

It's a bit like the gotcha of "this butch lesbian friend of mine was challenged in the toilets" - well, she probably wouldn't have been back in the days when so many men didn't feel they had a right to go into the women's loos

So the poor woman wasn't trans at all?!
She was just being judged on her looks?!
What happened to the usual mantra of we can always tell?!
It's not people who are trans that are a problem.
It's the self appointed gate keepers to womanhood that I find alarming.

@MrsSteveMcDonald

Semanya is male and from all accounts, prefers to be seen as a man everywhere apart from running so should be fine and dandy on a male ward.

So you want people born with vaginas placed on male wards?

And if they are unconscious or uncommunicative on admission then how are staff supposed to tell? Your model doesn't work in practice, especially in hospitals, that's the simple truth.

@EeeICouldRipATissue

So the poor woman wasn't trans at all?! She was just being judged on her looks?! What happened to the usual mantra of we can always tell?! It's not people who are trans that are a problem. It's the self appointed gate keepers to womanhood that I find alarming.

Your concern for this woman is touching. Maybe you could extend that concern to the women who are victims of male violence, harassement and sexual assault as a direct consequence of males being allowed to infiltrate women's sex segregated spaces.

@TurquoiseBaubles

Though I do agree that not knowing whether a ward is mixed sex or not is going to increase women's anxiety, and is going to result in more misunderstandings (at a minimum).

It's a bit like the gotcha of "this butch lesbian friend of mine was challenged in the toilets" - well, she probably wouldn't have been back in the days when so many men didn't feel they had a right to go into the women's loos

Oh yes, those heady days before trans people were visible when no butch lesbian ever got challenged in a woman's space ever. You're living in a fantasy world.

What it actually illustrates is that obssessively policing single sex spaces on the grounds of the genitals someone possessed at birth leads to biologically born women being abused

What a bizarre argument

It's not bizarre, it's a fair point.
I'm not sure I'm particularly liking the fact that if I had to go into hospital, feeling vulnerable and ill, I could have someone kicking up a scene and that I was a man and I didn't belong there etc trying to get me kicked out.
And occasionally women may get it wrong. So what?
So what?!
Really?!
Wow.

So you want people born with vaginas placed on male wards?

Males don't have vaginas. And your obsession over Castors genitals in order to further your agenda is... disturbing. And disrespectful.

It's the self appointed gate keepers to womanhood that I find alarming

Hang on, isn't this exactly the problem? Men have decided that some of them can be women if they want to be. Women are not allowed to question this. Then women are told off for getting upset if they perceive a man in a women's space. And because we can't trust authorities to be truthful about a person's sex anymore we only have our own perceptions to go on.

The self-appointed gatekeepers of womanhood are men, and I agree it is alarming.

It's not bizarre, it's a fair point.

No it's a ridiculous point designed to be some failing gotcha. Not working.

I'm not sure I'm particularly liking the fact that if I had to go into hospital, feeling vulnerable and ill, I could have someone kicking up a scene and that I was a man and I didn't belong there etc trying to get me kicked out.

I wouldn't give a shit. I'd rather that than a man actually be there.

And occasionally women may get it wrong. So what?
So what?!
Really?!
Wow.

Much better for a mistake to be made, than a woman get sexually assaulted by a male.

You clearly don't agree. Hardly surprising.

Critical thought ain't your thing eh?

Also the it's been 100% verified bit - what did she have to do to prove that and satisfy those saying she's a man?!
Drop her knickers!?!
Hopefully some other way.

The self-appointed gatekeepers of womanhood are men, and I agree it is alarming.

Isn't it just.

@EeeICouldRipATissue

Also the it's been 100% verified bit - what did she have to do to prove that and satisfy those saying she's a man?! Drop her knickers!?! Hopefully some other way.

Well there's an argument for not altering birth certificates if there ever was one eh.

If males didn't obsess about accessing female spaces we wouldn't be in this position.
Respect women and respect difference, It's healthier for everyone if we are all honest about our sex and, if you believe you have one, your gender identity. Be proud about being a transwoman if that's what you are.
It will save all the upset about passing or not

And that would include trans men.

The surgically transitioned trans man in a woman's space is my favourite scenario. Imagine the conversations:

Confused child: Mummy why is there a man in the changing rooms?
GC mum: That's not a man it's a woman
Even more confused child: Mummy do some women have a penis?
GC mum: yes ... No! .. shit ... just be quiet and get changed.

There is no way it could have been "100% verified" unless the medical staff breached a load of guidelines.

There are two possibilities. One is that the woman who was discharged now believes there were no men on the ward (though it seems to have been handled badly; surely a quiet talk rather than accusations of transphobia would have been more appropriate originally).

The other possible explanation (and this is something we have seen many times before) is that she is desperately backtracking on twitter to avoid the abuse she has been getting since the original thread. Sadly, that hasn't worked either as the abuse has actually increased significantly.

@barleybadminton

Ooops! Not turning out be a great week for the integrity of the gender critical movement.

twitter.com/Gillyism/status/1489201390341791759

"This is incredibly hard to say and I couldn’t feel more foolish, embarrassed, awkward and dumbfounded as I do now, but it’s been confirmed that the person I believed to be male on the hospital all female bay I was on, was indeed in fact, a female. This has been 100% verified."

Guess you can't always tell. Wonder how many more women will end up being harassed by gender critical activists because they are not sufficiently feminine.

Wow. Your gloatyness knows no depths. It's noted you never join threads to show any empthay, compassion or solidarity to women and girls. If you join it's either to gleefully tell us when we're wrong or just plain tell us we're transphobic.

Nice.

'Intersex' is a confusing term for a lot of people who assume it means 'people who lie somewhere between male and female'. In reality, Intersex people are either male or female and have a condition which may or may not affect the appearance and function of their sex organs. They are often trotted out as evidence that 'sex is a spectrum'. Absolute twaddle.

The surgically transitioned trans man in a woman's space is my favourite scenario. Imagine the conversations:

Trans men don't present the same risk to men in men's spaces as men do to women in women's spaces. If trans men want to use men's spaces then it's hardly an issue. They can risk assess this for themselves.
This also is not the gotcha you seem to think it is.

And I don't see any other way to do it, because as this incident reveals, women can't actually always tell.

////

Most of us can, actually.

Most of us can actually
Aye, you keep telling yourself that.

I suppose I must have met tens and thousands of people in my life - we all have. I can count on the fingers of one hand - OK, possibly two hands - the number of times I've mistaken a woman for a man or vice versa.

The fact that you occasionally see very mannish women or very feminine men is no reason whatsoever to allow men onto single-sex women's wards, or indeed any other female spaces.

Surely only the terminally stupid would fail to understand this.