Woman on ward - complains about male patient. Is discharged.

[KittenKong]

Going on twitter. She was in a Women’s ward (signage says ‘women’ but later this was disputed by staff).

Another patient on ward ‘Annie’ (not real name). Visitor comes in ‘Hello Fred’.

Woman patient complains that there is a male in the ward. Staff come on handed and tell her that there isn’t (and that there were no single sec wards) - and treated as if she is a troublemaker.

Woman mysteriously discharged PDQ, although not quite feeling well enough in herself.

twitter.com/gillyism/status/1486596070096478209?s=21

Baroness is on the case.

Why not?
Because people need evidence and sources please.
Not a feeling of feeling like someone's mum in your head.

@EeeICouldRipATissue

Your BBC link specifically says that there is serious violence towards trans people in the UK and even gives an example (won't post as fairly graphic description and don't want to upset anyone) So you're just linking to evidence that yes, actually, there is violence in the UK against trans people - not much murders but they do still happen. Violence and physical attacks much more commonplace.

Hardly any in the UK. If you read the article. One person stabbed. Possibly to do with sex work. Generally a very safe group of people in the UK overall. Now go check out the figures for women. That really is a problem isn't it.

@EeeICouldRipATissue

At the hands if males no doubt You have no way of knowing that though, you're just guessing, hence your "no doubt '' Yes, most of it probably is but abuse is abuse whoever it's coming from whether male or female

It's highly relevant whether abuse comes from males or females when you are discussing things like setting up/maintaining single sex spaces. Which is presumably why you want to minimise its relevance.

@EeeICouldRipATissue

Why not? Because people need evidence and sources please. Not a feeling of feeling like someone's mum in your head.

So a feeling in someone's head shouldn't actually be taken seriously then?

We said no even without the safety issue as you refuse to acknowledge that, privacy and dignity are still important.

Male bodies higher surgically altered belong with other male bodies.

Female with female.

We do not owe men and males some approved list of reasonable to jot consent to males spaces set aside fir females.

We are not validation tools for males.

We are not human shields

We are not your emotional support human

We are not your mother.

We do NOT comsent.

No

@EeeICouldRipATissue

Why not? Because people need evidence and sources please. Not a feeling of feeling like someone's mum in your head.

98% of sexual violence is perpetrated by males. That's a fact, its evidenced. Males, statistically, are a 'high risk' class of human, females are, statistically, a low risk class of human. Because of these evidenced facts, in certain situations, women have campaigned for single sex spaces, for their safety and dignity.

Now I want you to evidence at what objective point, upon which we can base law and policy, a male who 'identifies as a woman' comes out of the 'high risk' class of male and into the 'low risk' class of female. Is it when they have had full SRS? Hormones? Boob job? Long hair and makeup? Or just their own declaration that they are a actually a woman?

Sorry but that just sounds like you're reeling off from a script now.
Nobody said you were anyone's mother.
Nobody said you were a support human (only seen that phrase on here with people referring to themselves as one when nobody else has)

Why don't you answer why males have any right to be I'm spaces set aside for females.

Why isn't no enough?

I wanted to add a note that it can be confusing when people just use the word hospital "ward". In our hospital at least, all "wards" are mixed sex but within those wards are single sex bays.

I have not seen the admission of a transperson on our ward but would imagine they would be allocated a single side room.

I will ask when I am next in, what the policy is. Will be interesting to find out .......
(south of England)

I see we’re onto ‘women kill occasionally so you can’t say men are more dangerous’ on the bingo card

Answer is still no

Male violence is not women a problem to solve

Somehow I doubt TRA are over on pistonhead scolding men for being mean

If you read the article. One person stabbed. Possibly to do with sex work.

Stabbed by a schizophrenic man, IIRC.

Didn't stop TRA Twitter jumping at the chance to blame feminists for the violent actions of a mentally ill man though

@EeeICouldRipATissue

At the hands if males no doubt You have no way of knowing that though, you're just guessing, hence your "no doubt '' Yes, most of it probably is but abuse is abuse whoever it's coming from whether male or female

If you think women are attacking transwomen, why do you want to place transwomen in women's wards and endanger them?

@yourhairiswinterfire

If you read the article. One person stabbed. Possibly to do with sex work.

Stabbed by a schizophrenic man, IIRC.

Didn't stop TRA Twitter jumping at the chance to blame feminists for the violent actions of a mentally ill man though

Indeed

I think it's frankly bonkers and a deliberate misinterpretation of the facts as stated by C4 to claim transwomen are the safest demographic.

And I think it's bonkers and a deliberate misinterpretation of the facts to claim that transwomen are the most oppressed group.

The UK is one of the safest places in the world to be trans or non binary, despite the oft repeated trope of 'most marginalised and oppressed' -thecritic.co.uk/neither-marginalised-abused-nor-vulnerable/

There are undoubtedly places in the world where this is not the case, but it's a bit pointless to pretend that the situation in other countries can be extrapolated as if applies here too - the awful statistic of murdered Brazilian transwomen sex workers is applied as a statistic to 'prove' that transpeople in the UK are at similar risk. They're not.

Do I believe that transpeople receive abuse? Yes. Obviously transphobia exists. Does it mean they are the most oppressed group? No. I can think of several other groups and protected characteristics who are the subject of abuse and violence. Where is the focus on protecting them?

Sorry, link didn't work - thecritic.co.uk/neither-marginalised-abused-nor-vulnerable/

@Waitwhat23 I agree entirely that they're not the most oppressed group. I've read that link before.

There are positions other than 'trans women are the most oppressed' and 'trans women are the least oppressed, you know.

Not according to our elected representatives. From the article -

'In his much-mocked answer to a question about whether it’s bigoted to say only women have a cervix, Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer said: “We need to bear in mind that the trans community are amongst the most marginalised and abused communities.”

Asked to give his thoughts on Kemi Badenoch’s reported comments that LGBT activism has gone from wanting freedom to marry who you want, to men wanting to use women’s bathrooms, London Mayor Sadiq Khan replied: “The trans community is one of the most vulnerable in our society.”

Liberal Democrat leader Sir Ed Davey, presumably on his own accord, even tweeted that “The trans community is one of the most discriminated against in the UK” in order to condemn a story that the government was unlikely to introduce self ID in order to protect women’s spaces.'

Where is their concern for other oppressed groups? Why are there not discussion changes topolicies, change in law and language to support other groups? Why is the trope always 'trans people are the most oppressed group'?

I don't know why, but you're not going to get the answer to that question from someone who doesn't subscribe to that view (that TW are the most oppressed) in the first place.

I think femicide should be the leading concern for our elected representatives. Which I guess most GC feminists would agree with?

@Innocenta

I think femicide should be the leading concern for our elected representatives. Which I guess most GC feminists would agree with?

(I mean when it comes to crime, sorry.)

Then why if they aren't oppressed and I'm fact remain in the oppressor class as you cant change sex, do you believe they belong on a female. Ward.

You haven't explained what women get out if this policy and why what they lose is less important than how a male feels.

I always wonder about the conflation of very different experiences under the umbrella of "transgender community".

I find it implausible that we can lump together the experiences of a bisexual female teenager identifying as trans, a homosexual male teenager identifying as trans, and the experiences of a 40 year old heterosexual male identifying as trans.

@Whatwouldscullydo Yes, I realise you want to have a pointless, time wasting argument because you're annoyed that I disagree with you. Unfortunately I'm not willing to waste my very limited energy on doing that with you. Either we talk about the actual issue, or we don't talk.

I've made it very clear that I'm happy to discuss it. But I just see no value in going round and round over basic theoretical stuff.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

I always wonder about the conflation of very different experiences under the umbrella of "transgender community".

I find it implausible that we can lump together the experiences of a bisexual female teenager identifying as trans, a homosexual male teenager identifying as trans, and the experiences of a 40 year old heterosexual male identifying as trans.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes Yes, totally agree on this. I also feel this way about the "LGBTQ+" community taken as a presumably unified group. It's very irritating that referring to LGB is seen by some as "terfy" or rightwing, as opposed to neutrally specific.

But how can you discuss the policies of males on a female ward if you won't discuss what criteria you feel would justify placing males on a female ward and why that criteria is beneficial to all patients on the ward and how you think this particular set of undefined criteria could be policed in a way that doesn't align witg "GC feminists" as you disagree and with them but also fits within your undefined criteria that you won't say what it is