Woman on ward - complains about male patient. Is discharged.

[KittenKong]

Going on twitter. She was in a Women’s ward (signage says ‘women’ but later this was disputed by staff).

Another patient on ward ‘Annie’ (not real name). Visitor comes in ‘Hello Fred’.

Woman patient complains that there is a male in the ward. Staff come on handed and tell her that there isn’t (and that there were no single sec wards) - and treated as if she is a troublemaker.

Woman mysteriously discharged PDQ, although not quite feeling well enough in herself.

twitter.com/gillyism/status/1486596070096478209?s=21

Baroness is on the case.

I don't report posts. I'm pointing out your accusation of us being derogatory to transwomen as hypocritical f you believe there are some Males that should be excluded.

@Lovelyricepudding It would obviously be terrible care to treat someone as the opposite of their birth sex in medical terms. This is exactly the kind of thing that concerns me about how enforcement of gender ideology can harm trans people. They need good, accurate care as much as anyone else.

@DialSquare

I don't report posts. I'm pointing out your accusation of us being derogatory to transwomen as hypocritical f you believe there are some Males that should be excluded.

But what specifically have I said that is derogatory towards men/males? I genuinely don't think there is anything.

Barley any male insisting on being on a woman's only ward because they identify as a woman is behaving like an entitled male.

What has anyone on here said about transwomen that is derogatory other than we don't believe they are women?

@DialSquare

So Innocenta you are happy to exclude Males who have not transitioned from Female single sex spaces but would not exclude a fully transitioned transwoman. Aren't you being derogatory to the Males who have not transitioned with this thinking?

Very interested in this answer

How often does a man who presents as a man have his penis removed?

We are frequently told that trans rights do not infringe on women's rights

But then we are told that womens rights are transphobic.

It cannot be both.

You have to admit the conflict If womens sex based rights are transphobic.

You also should explain why transpeople are not entitled to the same levels if safeguarding and the expectation of behaviour by not forcing entry to places which are sex segregated, as everyone else. It's transphobic to assume the are unworthy or incapable of these things.

A transwoman will still be a transwoman in a male ward.

The only reason to place them on a female ward is to use unconsenting women as props.

Please do not tell me that is what you have reduced women to. Props /safety buffers for dysphoric males.

Innocenta You obviously realise that Males as a class are dangerous to Females as a class. What I'm trying understand is why you are happy to create a sacred caste of Males where safeguarding goes out the window just because they have fully transitioned.

@DialSquare

What has anyone on here said about transwomen that is derogatory other than we don't believe they are women?

What I said was: "the GC stance is so vehemently dismissive and denigratory towards trans people"

Perhaps that wording was too harsh, or I should have made more effort to clarify that I wasn't applying the phrase specifically to any individual poster here. I do hold to the view that posters on FWR are often (but not always or universally) quite unpleasant about trans people, but I realise there is vast provocation from the other side, and arguably worse behaviour.

(I'm about to have a medical home visit so won't be able to reply on this thread again for a while; my apologies to anyone waiting for an answer.)

Womanhood is more than a biological reality

Being a woman is a biological reality. There is no other way to be a woman apart from being born one. That's it. Men who have womanly feelings are still male. And they always will be.

But single sex spaces aren't dependant on the behaviour or beliefs of the women using them.

All you are doing is emotionally blackmailing women into accepting some Male's into their spaces.

We dont consent.

Whatever issues rhay brings to trabs people that's theirs to deal witg in a way that remains respectful of single sex spaces.

I do hold to the view that posters on FWR are often (but not always or universally) quite unpleasant about trans people

People often find the word 'no' unpleasant. It doesn't mean the 'no' is unpleasant. But some people struggle when they don't get their own way. Women standing up for their rights does not equal being unpleasant to trans people. It's not about trans people. It's about women. That's it.

I do hold to the view that posters on FWR are often (but not always or universally) quite unpleasant about trans people

This just comes across as some of us are "not being kind". People are different. Posters with GC views have different personalities. I'm a snarky, middle aged working class Londoner who doesn't have a lot of patience for many things. I can give it out but I can also take it.
Again, it seems like you have put transwomen up on a pedestal as a sacred caste that can not be questioned and need to be accepted with kindness at all times.

Innocenta Have you ever read the trans widows threads on here? These women and their children have been treated horrendously. You are advocating for the ex husbands who have fully transitioned (however rare that is) to have access to every safe space their ex wife has. Do you honestly think that is OK?

@DialSquare

Innocenta Have you ever read the trans widows threads on here? These women and their children have been treated horrendously. You are advocating for the ex husbands who have fully transitioned (however rare that is) to have access to every safe space their ex wife has. Do you honestly think that is OK?

Yes, I've read a bit, but mostly the trans widows' blog. I'm definitely familiar with the issue, though. I agree that a male person who'd abused their former wife in this way should never be accommodated on the same ward, whether that's a formally mixed sex ward or a nominally female ward (that is in fact mixed sex).

Believe me, I am not blind to the problems and abuses going on. I think some posters are presuming I need GC 101, or that I'm very largely on the gender ideology 'side'. That really is not the case. I do understand the GC perspective; I think it's valid, totally coherent, and should be a respected point of view. I don't think GC women should be punished, cancelled, etc.

I don't, however, think the gender ideology side is all bunkum, as I know many GC people do. (I also don't agree with a lot of it, though!) I'm sure no one is going to be interested in the convoluted ins and outs of my take, and I very much doubt it's original; I'm only sharing this to contextualise my previous posts a bit further.

@DialSquare

I do hold to the view that posters on FWR are often (but not always or universally) quite unpleasant about trans people

This just comes across as some of us are "not being kind". People are different. Posters with GC views have different personalities. I'm a snarky, middle aged working class Londoner who doesn't have a lot of patience for many things. I can give it out but I can also take it.
Again, it seems like you have put transwomen up on a pedestal as a sacred caste that can not be questioned and need to be accepted with kindness at all times.

I definitely do not subscribe to the view that any group is a sacred caste. I think we absolutely should be able to have robust debate, and the push against this is one of the things that most concerns me.

I also don't regard my views as aligning with 'Be kind'. Of course you're free to interpret them that way if you want to, but that's not how I see it.

If a transwoman is placed on what was a single sex ward that ward becomes mixed sex. A transwoman can never be in a female single sex space they can only destroy them. As soon as a transwoman enters that space then conscious and subconscious behaviour of all the women changes. Some may be sycophantic, most will be wary. The may chat and smile to try and placate the man in their midst or they may withdraw. None, even those who claim to be comfortable around transom end when they are vulnerable, will behave as they would if they were in a female only space.

So the question is not 'do transwomen have a right to be in female single sex spaces' because that is impossible. The question is 'do transwomen have the right to destroy female single sex spaces?'

If a transwoman is placed on what was a single sex ward that ward becomes mixed sex.

@Lovelyricepudding My post explicitly acknowledged this.

I get sick of hearing the word " debate"

What's to debate.

No males however they identify In single sex spaces for women.

Debate implies there are exceptions. That there re some males who should be there amd we just need to agree which ones.

But the answer is simple. None. Zero.

@Whatwouldscullydo I understand what GC feminists want. But clearly there's a large, vocal group of people who want something diametrically opposed to this, and the latter group has successfully lobbied and campaigned for changes in their favour.

In my opinion, the only realistic way to proceed is to foster dialogue. We can't just have a world that is safe for women, and running the way feminists want; because if we could, we'd be there already. Actual change is the result of debate, lobbying and policy.

We were there. The change has come about through TRA backroom deals and their #Nodebate complete with rape, death, violence and bomb threats to silence anyone who tied to speak up for women.

@Lovelyricepudding Yes, the whole concept of no debate is rubbish. I agree wholeheartedly.

We know from overwhelming evidence that trans women are just as likely to face sexual assault from men as other women

Please provide this evidence. Most men are heterosexual so are not sexually attracted to transwomen.