Dad taking daughters into the ladies or disabled toilets

[MattDillonsEyebrows]

If a dad was on his own with two daughters ages 4 & 5, would you have an issue with him going into the ladies toilets with them? He says he would call out, that he is a man, and coming in with his daughters and would stay in a cubicle, and also call out when leaving the cubicle. But obviously he would need to use the sinks to wash hands.

Or would you suggest he uses the disabled toilets instead?

The reason he doesn't want to use the mens, is a) them having to walk past urinals and strange men peeing, and b) due to the all too common state of men's toilets in general and even the sit down toilet usually has pee all over the seat and is generally disgusting and he doesn't want to subject his daughters to this.

I personally wouldn't have an issue with this because I agree with his reasons for not wanting to take his daughters in there, but obviously his presence would more than likely make some women feel uncomfortable which he would not want to do.

Disabled toilet is obviously another option, but having seen some of the disabled toilet threads on here, that would also cause an issue if a disabled person was waiting. Obviously a child, is unlikely to be able to wait.

Please nobody retort with 'well the fact that men's toilet's are filthy isn't the women's problem' or similar as, whilst I agree with this sentiment, unfortunately they do tend to be gross and changing that would take huge societal change which let's face it, is not likely to happen soon.

@Bakewelltart987 no women don't pee openly in urinals. But they do sometimes leave cubicle doors open or come out with bloody hands.

This is a dilemma, I said earlier that in my view if there is no alternative then the disabled toilets would be the most appropriate. In an ideal world this is not the first answer. I understand the objections to this but they are not always used and we are not talking about the toilets being occupied for a lengthy time period.

@HooverIsAlwaysBroken

I used to have the cubicle door open or slightly open when I had a sleeping baby in a pram. Sometimes there was no accessible loo (I used the ones with baby change), sometimes I just really needed to go urgently as my bladder wasn’t that strong after giving birth.

I would have been mortified if a strange man came in and saw me. And I wouldn’t have had the time to finish, wipe myself and get out if he “called out”.

He really shouldn’t be there.

Me too. With twins, I couldn't fit the pram in the cubicle, so I frequently had to wedge it in the door and leave the door half open. Why is this even a debate? So fucking depressing. Just give us our space and leave us be, for the love of god. Is it really too much to ask?

@KurtWilde

I'd have absolutely no problem with this. Better that than he send them in alone or take them into the gents.

One of my neighbours who's a single dad to a 3yo daughter, actually asked me this question a short while ago and I gave him the answer above.

So far no one has had an issue, in fact he mentioned he's had a few positive comments from women saying what a lovely dad to take her in.

Well you don't get to speak for the rest of womankind. THIS IS NOT FUCKING OK!

BlueberryCheezecake

Have you ever taken a child to the toilet?

I have not seen a male take their daughter into a female toilet. I have also not seen an opposite sex carer take their charge into the toilet when they are the opposite sex.

Next you will be telling us these are very common occurrences. They are not.

You have your very own agenda to push here.

No. Males take their girls to the male toilet, complete with wipes to clean the seat. When the child is old enough they send her in by herself and stand outside. They may ask for a woman going in to keep an eye out, I have been asked this numerous times.

Men should get positive comments from other men on what great dads they are.

I find this infuriating.

One of my communities refused to put potties in the men's but was puzzled as to why men kept nipping into the ladies and they couldn't fanthom why they found potties in the men's. Dads being dads is a good thing and the more they do it the less willies get dangled and flashed. Not that many like to swing them around anyway!

Personally I wouldn't have an issue with it - he's not identifying as a woman or posing a threat.

I think it'd be more damaging for the young girls to walk past a row of penises at eye level at urinals than it is damaging for women to have a polite father in the female loos for a legitimate reason.

Personally I wouldn't have an issue with it - he's not identifying as a woman or posing a threat

And the other women and little girls know this how?

You don't think husbands and fathers can pose a threat?

Don't you think the fact he even thinks it OK is a huge red flag with regards to whether he poses a threat?

Please let us all know the give away this man is safe please. You could save so many people witg this gift

Yes Hoover, I am another who has had to have the pram stuck in the open door, all while dealing with period flooding. Any person who has had to take a baby out by themselves in a pram when there is no family toilet will have had the door jammed open.

I have had to take my mother in a wheelchair into normal toilets with the wheelchair jammed in the door as I had my hands full keeping her steady. Because there was no accessible toilets. It does happen.

People who push the ‘they just want to pee’ agenda tend to either never have experienced dealing with other uses for toilets before, and the issues of prams etc.

Do baby changing rooms have a toilet and wash basin?

DH used to take DD into the men's loos if I wasn't available or was busy. He used wet wipes & loo roll to clean the seat if necessary. These days he waits near the door of the ladies, or somewhere he can see the outer door, & she goes on on her own. Or I go in with her, she's 9. If there was a massive queue he sometimes used the disabled loo as she was very late to potty training (not reliable until about 6-7, regressed significantly during lockdown & also went nonverbal again) so it's pretty obvious she's not entirely NT, she struggled for years with the noise of the hand driers & would start freaking out.

Absolutely not appropriate.

Well you don't get to speak for the rest of womankind .THIS IS NOT FUCKING OK!

Neither do you, we're both just randoms on the internet sharing an opinion. Btw, yours is just an opinion too, just different to mine.

I'd say the nice positive comments he got from women in the toilets are pretty much going against your shouty response though.

Men having a quiet wee in a urinal are hardly flashing - given how sensitive some men are about their weeing neighbour looking at their penis - and normal men are discreet about it and get on with it quietly. Especially if there’s a child walking through. No problem at all for a dad to walk past with a 5 year old girl - she’s safe because he’s there, and if he doesn’t want her to see the back of men having a discreet wee a quick distracting conversation at the right moment will do the trick. Wipes if needed for dirty seats. Jobs a good’un. No need for adult men in the ladies’ loo.

@twelly

This is a dilemma, I said earlier that in my view if there is no alternative then the disabled toilets would be the most appropriate. In an ideal world this is not the first answer. I understand the objections to this but they are not always used and we are not talking about the toilets being occupied for a lengthy time period.

Would you park in a disabled parking space because it’s not occupied, and you won’t be long? Able bodied people using the facilities designated and designed for disabled people is morally and legally wrong.

Disabled people don’t want to be publicly humiliated and end up soiling themselves because they turned up 1 second after you and have to wait for an able-bodied person to finish using the disabled toilet. It doesn’t matter how quick you are. Disabled people may have bladder or bowel urgency, they don’t have the option to wait, and they don’t have the option to use another toilet.

You should not speak for disabled people and say it’s ok to use the disabled toilets under x circumstances. Don’t use the disabled toilets if you are not disabled. Feeling uncomfortable because a man is in your space is awful but feeling uncomfortable because you are covered in your own waste is worse.

DH used to take my daughters into the men’s. He wouldn’t have considered entering the women’s changing rooms, and rightly so.

A dad kept helping his young daughters change at our local swimming pool, he was asked to leave by management.

Bakewelltart987

I assume that, since no-one is seriously suggesting that the problem of women seeing men peeing at a urinal is a prevalence of female-on-male attacks, an ability of women to physically intimidate or overpower men, or men being in any way at risk from such an event, that the only reason you think it would be wrong for women to enter the men's toilet and potentially seeing them with their penises out is that it would make the men feel uncomfortable with the lack of privacy and dignity?

Has your view been changed by the replies on this thread of women who would feel exactly the same about having men in the women's toilets simply in that same ground?

Is there some special reason why it's unthinkable that men should be made to feel uncomfortable and lose a sense of privacy and dignity while women should suck it up?

If for some reason you think women should have to grin and bear those feelings while men's same feelings should be protected, has your view been changed by the accounts of women who have had to wedge the cubicle doors open in order to pee while their children are in their care? What about the women who need to deal with menstrual issues or would feel actually afraid of finding themselves vulnerable in a confined space like this with a man?

@KurtWilde

Well you don't get to speak for the rest of womankind .THIS IS NOT FUCKING OK!

Neither do you, we're both just randoms on the internet sharing an opinion. Btw, yours is just an opinion too, just different to mine.

I'd say the nice positive comments he got from women in the toilets are pretty much going against your shouty response though.

Yes it's just an opinion (shared by the vast majority on this thread btw) However even if most women were fine with random blokes popping up in their toilets, the fact that some aren't ok with it should be respected for the sake of their privacy and dignity. You don't get to trample over their rights to women only spaces.

Instead of converting separate sex toilets into mixed sex ones, there could be one extra cubicle added into the male one for fathers with children and one for women with their children in the female one (this works well at my town swimming pool. Otherwise kept very separate) The money spent would be better used than making women’s o so welcoming for men.
I remember that I was taken into a male toilet by a friends father at the age of about 8 . I was well aware of the couple of men urinating on the other side of the room and it did disturb me. This thread reminded me of how would I felt.

How awful I felt

@KurtWilde

Well you don't get to speak for the rest of womankind .THIS IS NOT FUCKING OK!

Neither do you, we're both just randoms on the internet sharing an opinion. Btw, yours is just an opinion too, just different to mine.

I'd say the nice positive comments he got from women in the toilets are pretty much going against your shouty response though.

You don't get to give away other women's privacy, dignity and safety just because you are OK with it. Yes there are two opinions but if with follow those whom do mind men in women's toilets then that doesn't impact in you. Whereas if we follow your opinion and turn the space mixed sex then the women for whom the single sex space mattered lose out, and with it for some that means the ability to be out of the house for any time, for others their dignity and safety.

I disagree I would rather they went in the women's waiting near the entrance or in the stall (depending on age). Young children still need supervision in the bathroom at that age even if it's to make sure they are not messing with the toilets and washing their hands. I vividly remember being 6 and flushing a toilet roll down the loo at a expensive restaurant.

Is there some special reason why it's unthinkable that men should be made to feel uncomfortable and lose a sense of privacy and dignity while women should suck it up?

Maybe it is time for men to be women’s allies and to start agitating that now they are taking on 50% of the child caring duties that we need solutions for public lavatories that allow for women with sons, men with daughters, both with large prams and so on to use a dedicated family space? In the toilets at Auckland airport a few years back I even saw some little toilets that were for children. This would be a good use of men’s time.

I would also be worried about my child not having their father nearby, I would definitely be unhappy with my ex brought a DD in the men's toilet where male penis are on view and what about their privacy?

I remember that I was taken into a male toilet by a friends father at the age of about 8

8 is quite old though, isnt it?

Whenever these threads come up the Australian children all seem manage to toilet themselves, get changed for swimming at a much younger age. Additional needs notwithstanding.

I assume it’s related to how an Australian child is more likely to swim multiple times a week, have a swimming pool at their school, have a pool at home. An 8 year here could be doing swim squad training, there’s a sign outside our swim club asking parents to stay out of the training rooms. Maybe because in summer here it’s warmer, there’s fewer layers for children to worry about.