Dad taking daughters into the ladies or disabled toilets

[MattDillonsEyebrows]

If a dad was on his own with two daughters ages 4 & 5, would you have an issue with him going into the ladies toilets with them? He says he would call out, that he is a man, and coming in with his daughters and would stay in a cubicle, and also call out when leaving the cubicle. But obviously he would need to use the sinks to wash hands.

Or would you suggest he uses the disabled toilets instead?

The reason he doesn't want to use the mens, is a) them having to walk past urinals and strange men peeing, and b) due to the all too common state of men's toilets in general and even the sit down toilet usually has pee all over the seat and is generally disgusting and he doesn't want to subject his daughters to this.

I personally wouldn't have an issue with this because I agree with his reasons for not wanting to take his daughters in there, but obviously his presence would more than likely make some women feel uncomfortable which he would not want to do.

Disabled toilet is obviously another option, but having seen some of the disabled toilet threads on here, that would also cause an issue if a disabled person was waiting. Obviously a child, is unlikely to be able to wait.

Please nobody retort with 'well the fact that men's toilet's are filthy isn't the women's problem' or similar as, whilst I agree with this sentiment, unfortunately they do tend to be gross and changing that would take huge societal change which let's face it, is not likely to happen soon.

Well, what if one five year old is traumatised by seeing penises in the men's? I mean there is a key difference which is that in the ladies no-one actually has their genitals out where they can be seen by all and sundry. I know this is a hot button topic in here but OP, not everyone is on the same side.

No hes an adult man so use mens. I would never take my son into the mens and think it's ok? !

There are a lot of "well, I don't mind"s and a fair few "don't be ridiculous"s on this thread.

There seem to be many women who think "well I don't mind so you shouldn't".

It's those people I'm addressing. Like TwentyFirstCenturyTricoteuse. for example .

@WhereYouLeftIt

Wowsers! Bit harsh! You might want to work on your tone a little as you came across unnecessarily unpleasant.

It was merely a discussion and I was just wondering if ever there might be a reason for a man to go in a Women’s toilet. As it happens there isn’t and I have got some great learning point from this discussion.

He’s not ‘making me to all the work’, he couldn’t possibly understand how women feels because he’s a man. He wants to understand as much as he can because he has daughters and wants to empower them. He’s not going to get it right every time, just as I’m not, (and I doubt you do) and in this case, he got it wrong, which is fine, because it’s a discussion!! 🤦‍♀️

As for Blueberry and "it's never been the case that female toilets are sacrocant [sic] female-only spaces" - really? Workmen and cleaners can come in so therefore it's not a female-only space? The logic is baffling but not surprising in this case

Many baby changing rooms also have toilets in them, so I’d tell him to use those first, and if there’s not one available, to use the disabled toilet. No way would I want him to use the womens toilet.

This seems to be a new thing which is happening more frequently. And is supposed to be seen and lauded by women everywhere as an example of great parenting- man decides that his daughters are more important and their need more important than everyone else, because a man is looking after his kids and has decided this is more appropriate. Go places with family toilets. Or as others have said, do something about improving the conditions in male toilets. I assume there are not penises flying gaily around- men don't show each other so the risk is low of seeing one in its natural state, and given that male toddlers and you d children are taken there to sit with no complaints, I'm assuming the condition isnt that dire- or are dads happy for boy young children to sit on a seat full of feaces and urine? I'd assume I parent would want a child of either sex in that position- fathers of girls don't win there. There should be greater access to and more parents toilets, not an assumption that men can use the women because they've decided it's ok and everyone else should to.

Some women are just as disgusting or worse than men when going to the toilet. I wouldn’t want my dds to see men standing at the urinals.

Some arguments I've seen (not just on this thread) are that it could be dangerous for a man to be in a female toilet because "god knows what his motives are", so then wouldn't it be even more dangerous to take a little girl into the mens loos? If it were me, I would probably use the disabled loos as quickly as possible as long as no one else was waiting for them.

@Soontobe60

Many baby changing rooms also have toilets in them, so I’d tell him to use those first, and if there’s not one available, to use the disabled toilet. No way would I want him to use the womens toilet.

No way do disabled people want able bodied people to use the disabled toilet.

Women quite rightly don't want men to appropriate women's spaces and services. Equally disabled people don't want able bodied people to appropriate their spaces and services.

Why should a disabled person be forced to wait outside their own hard won space? Because someone isn't quite comfortable with the other option and rather than campaign for an additional space they want to appropriate a more venerable groups space? That argument sounds familiar......

Do not use the disabled toilet if you can physically access the other toilets because some disabled people cannot physically access other toilets.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38663322

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/hate-crime/disability-hate-crime/

It’s pretty hateful to leave a vulnerable person to soil themselves in public while you use their services while you have your own.

@Blackbird1234

Some arguments I've seen (not just on this thread) are that it could be dangerous for a man to be in a female toilet because "god knows what his motives are", so then wouldn't it be even more dangerous to take a little girl into the mens loos? If it were me, I would probably use the disabled loos as quickly as possible as long as no one else was waiting for them.

The child is accompanied by their parent/carer, so where is the danger?

Completely missing the point, but am I the only person whose parents suspended them an inch over public toilets so they didn’t have to sit on pissy seats?

Goldbar - I suppose if the carer/parent is going to the loo themselves/distracted/occupied with washing their hands or something, making the child briefly vulnerable. I don't personally see an issue with any of it as where I live the majority of public bathrooms are mixed sex anyway and there are rarely any issues, so mainly just commenting on the logic but I can see that the risk is lessened as the child would be accompanied, thanks 😊

Nellodee, my mum used to do that to me too hahahah

No he really shouldn’t go in to the Ladies.

@Blackbird1234

Goldbar - I suppose if the carer/parent is going to the loo themselves/distracted/occupied with washing their hands or something, making the child briefly vulnerable. I don't personally see an issue with any of it as where I live the majority of public bathrooms are mixed sex anyway and there are rarely any issues, so mainly just commenting on the logic but I can see that the risk is lessened as the child would be accompanied, thanks 😊

The risk is much greater for an unaccompanied child in the female toilets if it's suddenly OK for men to wander in and out.

Fathers often send their little girls from 5/6 onwards into the female toilets and the reason they usually feel comfortable doing this is because there are no men in there.

@MattDillonsEyebrows

If a dad was on his own with two daughters ages 4 & 5, would you have an issue with him going into the ladies toilets with them? He says he would call out, that he is a man, and coming in with his daughters and would stay in a cubicle, and also call out when leaving the cubicle. But obviously he would need to use the sinks to wash hands.

Or would you suggest he uses the disabled toilets instead?

The reason he doesn't want to use the mens, is a) them having to walk past urinals and strange men peeing, and b) due to the all too common state of men's toilets in general and even the sit down toilet usually has pee all over the seat and is generally disgusting and he doesn't want to subject his daughters to this.

I personally wouldn't have an issue with this because I agree with his reasons for not wanting to take his daughters in there, but obviously his presence would more than likely make some women feel uncomfortable which he would not want to do.

Disabled toilet is obviously another option, but having seen some of the disabled toilet threads on here, that would also cause an issue if a disabled person was waiting. Obviously a child, is unlikely to be able to wait.

Please nobody retort with 'well the fact that men's toilet's are filthy isn't the women's problem' or similar as, whilst I agree with this sentiment, unfortunately they do tend to be gross and changing that would take huge societal change which let's face it, is not likely to happen soon.

What would he do if he needed to use the loo himself, or take a male child to the loo? Do that. Not sure why filthy toilets are relevant to the fact that his children are female.

Fathers often send their little girls from 5/6 onwards into the female toilets and the reason they usually feel comfortable doing this is because there are no men in there.
Yes, and the OP's dh will never ever be able to do that now. Even when his dd is 13 she won't be able to go to the toilet as he will know that there could be a man in there. The sort of man who thinks it's ok to go in women's toilets.

I would be fine with this he has young girls and I wouldn't want them seeing grown men peeing in the fellas toilets.
I really don't see how people can have an issue with it he can't see you through a locked cubic door.

@Wasabiprawns

Think of it the other way - would it be ok for a mum to take her son into the men's toilet? Not really.

No but them woman don't pee openly in urinals unless am missing something.

I used to have the cubicle door open or slightly open when I had a sleeping baby in a pram. Sometimes there was no accessible loo (I used the ones with baby change), sometimes I just really needed to go urgently as my bladder wasn’t that strong after giving birth.

I would have been mortified if a strange man came in and saw me. And I wouldn’t have had the time to finish, wipe myself and get out if he “called out”.

He really shouldn’t be there.

I really don't see how people can have an issue with it he can't see you through a locked cubic door

What about all the unaccompanied girls now then? The ones who can't rely on a female only space because instead of factoring in some time and a fiver to grab a coffee somewhere with nore suitable facilities, a dad decided he was too special to do what the mums do, and turned a women's loo into a mixed sex space.

@Goldbar "On the privacy/dignity point, as a society we do not consider that young children have the same requirements for single-sex spaces to preserve their dignity as grown adults. Neither is it considered that the presence of young children of the opposite sex infringes the dignity of adults."

Exactly, it's having adults of the opposite sex together that is the problem and violation of privacy, not adults and small children.

Nope. If they're old enough he waits outside the toilet for them, otherwise he takes them into the men's.

I'd have absolutely no problem with this. Better that than he send them in alone or take them into the gents.

One of my neighbours who's a single dad to a 3yo daughter, actually asked me this question a short while ago and I gave him the answer above.

So far no one has had an issue, in fact he mentioned he's had a few positive comments from women saying what a lovely dad to take her in.