Dad taking daughters into the ladies or disabled toilets

[MattDillonsEyebrows]

If a dad was on his own with two daughters ages 4 & 5, would you have an issue with him going into the ladies toilets with them? He says he would call out, that he is a man, and coming in with his daughters and would stay in a cubicle, and also call out when leaving the cubicle. But obviously he would need to use the sinks to wash hands.

Or would you suggest he uses the disabled toilets instead?

The reason he doesn't want to use the mens, is a) them having to walk past urinals and strange men peeing, and b) due to the all too common state of men's toilets in general and even the sit down toilet usually has pee all over the seat and is generally disgusting and he doesn't want to subject his daughters to this.

I personally wouldn't have an issue with this because I agree with his reasons for not wanting to take his daughters in there, but obviously his presence would more than likely make some women feel uncomfortable which he would not want to do.

Disabled toilet is obviously another option, but having seen some of the disabled toilet threads on here, that would also cause an issue if a disabled person was waiting. Obviously a child, is unlikely to be able to wait.

Please nobody retort with 'well the fact that men's toilet's are filthy isn't the women's problem' or similar as, whilst I agree with this sentiment, unfortunately they do tend to be gross and changing that would take huge societal change which let's face it, is not likely to happen soon.

Is it unfeminist to not want my preteen daughters to encounter strange men in a place where they are unaccompanied and may well be completely alone, as their own (male) parent is waiting outside? In that situation, the accompanied preteen is the more vulnerable.

Did this thread start off in the Feminism board or was it moved? I could have sworn it was in general chat.

At 4 and 5 he can wait outside the ladies loos for them to finish.

Goodness I think I'm one of the only ones that would rather he went to the ladies. Men's toilets are rank and generally have men in various states of undress not in a cubicle. No way would I want a small child seeing that, tbh

I used to use a local leisure centre. Mens toilets were rank, yes.

However this meant women used to take their sons, of varying ages- some were sent in in their own so more than capable of independently using a toilet, and I saw on boy, taller than me, being taken by his mum with her hands over his eyes through the womens change to use the womens loos. That and my 7 year old went to use the shower once and found a fully naked boy using it. His mum was watching her daughter’s swimming lesson and didn’t return for 20 mins.

Anyway, all this led to was the women’s toilets were also grim. Pee on the seats, on the floor, stinky etc.

The mums refused to send their sons into the mens as it was “dangerous”, apparently.

This is why I will never accept allowing men and independent boys into womens facilities.

@VelvetChairGirl

I wouldnt bat an eyelid he has a valid reason to be there.

I take my son into the ladies with me, he is now 11, no one has moaned if they do I will tell thm he is SEN and gets frightened in the mens and there is no way on earth I would go in the mens with him.

If he has SEN then you should use the accessible (disabled) toilets. He is too old for the ladies where 7/8/9 year old girls are on their own. If he does not have SEN then it would be awful behaviour to claim it just for convenience.

All the people sneering at objections to a father entering the women's toilets on the basis that young female children deserve to toilet in facilities of their own sex have just removed that option/right by the vet act of making it a mixed sex space by allowing those fathers in. Not only for the child of the man in question but for any slightly older female children going into 'womens' toilets unaccompanied who can be followed by any strange men claiming to need to change a nappy or accompany a small child.

Not the best thought-through argument, is it?

It seems many people do not consider the split to be men and women's but rather men and then 'anyone who doesn't fancy using the men's for whatever reason because women can just budge up'

@FairyLightQueen

I don't understand how people would rather have a small girl see a stranger's penis than let a small girl use the toilets of her own sex! How is that feminist?!

It's not the small girl who is the issue here .

Do you also object to fathers discreetly going to change their babies in the ladies because there's no changing table in the mens? You'd rather the baby got changed on the mens floor, or all the going out and and about with baby be the mother's job?

Yes. I do object to that too. DH was the one at home for a period with both our children as babies, and works part-time so he can have time with them during the week, so he's very used to having to find changing facilities. It's a pain. He's had to change the baby on the floor before (though so have I, sometimes there just aren't any changing facilities). He could go on mastermind with his specialist subject being 'shops in our town where the change table isn't in the women's loos'. But he doesn't go in the women's, because that's not an acceptable solution.

Because children are people too, who deserve respect and dignity, and access to the facilities of their own sex?

How can you think that having access to single-sex facilities is a matter of respect and dignity but also that it's fine for men to wander into the women's toilets if they happen to be accompanied by their daughter?

On the men's toilets being disgusting point, women's toilets are often not much better in places with lots of families, often because they are used by young boys accompanying their female parent. That's part of the reason why it's useful to carry anti-bacterial gel and handwash on trips out and we did this even pre-Covid. Also, if men's toilets really are that disgusting, why should male children be expected to put up with them rather than their fathers bringing them into the women's toilets? And I think people would agree that a male parent bringing male children into the female toilets would be nonsensical.

On the privacy/dignity point, as a society we do not consider that young children have the same requirements for single-sex spaces to preserve their dignity as grown adults. Neither is it considered that the presence of young children of the opposite sex infringes the dignity of adults. That's why as a rule women don't object to small boys accompanied by their mothers coming into the female toilets/changing-rooms. Nor is this considered an infringement of the boys' dignity.

Why shouldn't men change their babies on the floor of the men's? You take mats to put down and if it is too yucky then you find somewhere else. The advantage of nappies is, with the rare exception, you get time to find somewhere OK and most town centres have a number of options. You don't just go to the ladies.

My Dad used to take me into the men’s, and check With the men in there that it was okay first.

A good lesson in respect and boundaries for everyone.
This was pre-disabled toilet days. I used to take my male children to the disabled toilets once in the past the age of about six, Too old to come to the ladies with me, too young to go to the gents on their own.

Most toilets are called accessible now rather than disabled. Better to use the accessible toilet.

I always go in the disabled as Mine are too young to be left waiting for me to finish! My OH takes them into the disabled loo as well

I would be very uneasy at a man in the women's toilet as it clearly flags them as a man who doesn't care about women's boundaries. He's prioritising his wants above every other female who needs to use that space

@FairyLightQueen

I don't understand how people would rather have a small girl see a stranger's penis than let a small girl use the toilets of her own sex! How is that feminist?!

How can they be toilets for her own sex if they're being used by men?

I’d say use the disabled toilet. Young young’s shouldn’t have to walk past men using urinals. Sending them alone into the women’s may have been an option even 5 years ago - now who knows who is in there and cannot be confronted.

I know people say disabled toilets must be kept for disabled people, but if we think why they need them - because they need to take carers with them to help with clothes or cleaning, because they have limited control of bladder or bowel and urgency, because they may need to change due to soiling, because they may need to wash themselves, etc. - many of these issues also apply to young children.

@Lovelyricepudding there isn't always an accessible toilet.

Me and DH called at a pub for a Sunday afternoon meal and drink a few months ago. I'm in a wheelchair. They didn't have an accessible toilet.

My DH had to help me out of my chair and support me into the ladies toilet, help me and lift me on and off the toilet. There was literally no other option.

Should I have had to use the mens toilet instead because I needed his assistance?

Wouldn’t bother me at all, people seem hysterical about this though.

@FairyLightQueen

I don't understand how people would rather have a small girl see a stranger's penis than let a small girl use the toilets of her own sex! How is that feminist?!

@FairyLightQueen

I mean assuming the females aren’t pissing with doors wide open I’m sure this dad won’t be seeing anything private and the 2 young kids will see a lot in the gents toilets.

Spooky in such a situation I would probably treat the whole toilets as a single cubical and stop anyone entering and use whichever is easiest to allow this men's or women's.

That's one of the reasons why I prefer unisex toilets/dressing rooms. Otherwise you end up with situations where men are in the women's toilets/young girls have to go past urinals/little boys are left unsupervised in men's toilets/little girls have to rely on random strangers for help toileting/mothers take in a disproportionate care load.