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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Dad taking daughters into the ladies or disabled toilets

260 replies

MattDillonsEyebrows · 22/01/2022 14:32

If a dad was on his own with two daughters ages 4 & 5, would you have an issue with him going into the ladies toilets with them? He says he would call out, that he is a man, and coming in with his daughters and would stay in a cubicle, and also call out when leaving the cubicle. But obviously he would need to use the sinks to wash hands.

Or would you suggest he uses the disabled toilets instead?

The reason he doesn't want to use the mens, is a) them having to walk past urinals and strange men peeing, and b) due to the all too common state of men's toilets in general and even the sit down toilet usually has pee all over the seat and is generally disgusting and he doesn't want to subject his daughters to this.

I personally wouldn't have an issue with this because I agree with his reasons for not wanting to take his daughters in there, but obviously his presence would more than likely make some women feel uncomfortable which he would not want to do.

Disabled toilet is obviously another option, but having seen some of the disabled toilet threads on here, that would also cause an issue if a disabled person was waiting. Obviously a child, is unlikely to be able to wait.

Please nobody retort with 'well the fact that men's toilet's are filthy isn't the women's problem' or similar as, whilst I agree with this sentiment, unfortunately they do tend to be gross and changing that would take huge societal change which let's face it, is not likely to happen soon.

OP posts:
Aroundtheworldin80moves · 22/01/2022 16:17

Just to add, I've seen it once too. But the child had a bad nosebleed and the mother was there too. It was obviously an emergency situation. Not just a man thinking he was above convention.

Itslit · 22/01/2022 16:20

He says he would call out, that he is a man, and coming in with his daughters and would stay in a cubicle, and also call out when leaving the cubicle

This is misogynistic in itself

Luredbyapomegranate · 22/01/2022 16:21

Disabled or baby change loos.

As a PP said, if he goes into the women’s then you are teaching your daughters it’s OK for men to invade single sex spaces. It is not.

In an emergency, he should explain his problem and ask to use the staff loo.

Rainbowqueeen · 22/01/2022 16:22

No it’s completely inappropriate. And entitled. His feelings do not trump those of women who are using the facilities.

He needs to plan outings appropriately Nervous drivers will make their own adjustments when they go out eg leaving earlier, taking a different route. He needs to make his own adjustments that do not inconvenience or trigger anyone else eg researching where the regularly cleaned toilets are, taking wipes with him.

StarsAreWishes · 22/01/2022 16:23

Would I personally have a problem with it? No.

But as you can see from the answers, there are enough people who would have an issue with it for him not to do it.

I don’t think you will get a “general consensus” here though. I think this is one of those threads that will gain disproportionately more comments from people who feel strongly. And that’s OK. The strength of the feeling is relevant.

HardbackWriter · 22/01/2022 16:25

@jay55

I've seen it happen once. It was at a casino in Las Vegas, he had three kids all probably under 8, the eldest didn't look old enough to help the youngest, who was probably too young to be able to hold it for long. It honestly didn't cross my mind to be upset. I fully understood he couldn't take them into the mens, which would likely be full of drunks.

Shopping centres that have decent family facility's are brilliant and we need more all in units with space for parent and multiple kids.

No one should be taking their children to somewhere that the toilets will likely be full of drunks Confused

DH does find it a real pain that so many places only have baby changing facilities in the women's toilets, but he's just had to learn a list of where they're not in the women's. Because, clearly, him going in the women's toilets isn't an option.

bonetiredwithtwins · 22/01/2022 16:25

At that age I would expect at least the 5 year old to go into the ladies herself - she will be doing that at school after all

The 4 year old - borderline and I wouldn't have an issue with him using the disabled - majority of disabled loos are actually dual purpose for disabled and baby change these days so I don't see why someone would get uppity about it

I imagine any lady in the loos seeing his predicament would offer to watch the girls until they'd come out (not go in the cubicle obviously) but keep an eye on case they couldn't manage the lock or reach to press the tap or something

lucillelarusso · 22/01/2022 16:26

DH used to CARRY DD into the mens and hold her above the loo, and they used to go to Old Trafford a lot - grim toilets. It's not acceptable for a man to go in the women's toilet.

lucillelarusso · 22/01/2022 16:27

@Aroundtheworldin80moves

Just to add, I've seen it once too. But the child had a bad nosebleed and the mother was there too. It was obviously an emergency situation. Not just a man thinking he was above convention.
Why on earth did the child need 2 parents with her?
Ossoduro · 22/01/2022 16:28

I would rather have a dad bring his two little girls into the ladies than have the two little girls have to go into the men’s. I just don’t see a problem with that. Particularly if he calls out on his way in. When there is a male cleaner they just put up a sign. What’s the difference?

Aroundtheworldin80moves · 22/01/2022 16:28

@lucillelarusso the father had gone to buy a new top and brought it into the toilets to pass to the mother who was cleaning the child up.

lucillelarusso · 22/01/2022 16:28

Why on earth was a child in a casino - they are over 21 only?? Why didn't they go to the foyer of the hotel and use the mens? None of these 'reasons' are ok.

trunktoes · 22/01/2022 16:29

My husband is a stay at home Dad and would never have dreamed of going into the ladies. He would either take them in the mens or use the disabled or wait outside

Spellfish · 22/01/2022 16:30

At 5, neither of my dds could reliably manage a public toilet - too small to reach the sink quite often, scared of the sound of the hand dryers and bamboozled by the different types of locks on doors. At school, everything is them-sized, and YR teachers quite regularly have to rescue kids who have locked themselves in!

So DH took them in the gents, and it was never an issue. Often an advantage - no queue.

HRMtheQuern · 22/01/2022 16:35

Well the kids need the toilet and he's an adult responsible for them you can't just leave a 4 and 5 year old to go in without an adult in a public toilet but I think he should've used the disabled one

Whatsyourfavouritescarymovie · 22/01/2022 16:36

I personally wouldn't have an issue with a man coming into the ladies for his daughter(s) to use the toilet. Clearly I'm a minority.

CorvusPurpureus · 22/01/2022 16:36

I do think that if I were to be designing toilets, I'd put the urinals round a corner or behind a screen. So as a dad, you could go in with your small dd & take her to a cubicle without having to walk past men having a tinkle.

It's not a huge problem, i don't think - wall of backs, not blokes doing helicopter impressions, & it's their space - but if I were a dad & was concerned about my dd seeing even that much of men having a pee, I'd want that, long before I decided that the solution was for me to enter women's spaces.

RobotValkyrie · 22/01/2022 16:37

This thread is beyond ridiculous...

I don't really understand what difference it makes if the children are male or female?
Because children are people too, who deserve respect and dignity, and access to the facilities of their own sex? Because exposing young girls to partially naked strange men is not on? Because girls are allowed to go out and about in wider society, under the protection of a responsible adult, from the youngest age, as it is essential for the proper socialisation of any child? Because girls shouldn't face disadvantages just because of the sex of their guardian? Because introducing additional constraint when girls are looked after by their dad, means their mum is more likely to end up having to do all the work of looking after them?

Jesus. Sometimes "feminists" can be furiously anti-women.
Do you also object to fathers discreetly going to change their babies in the ladies because there's no changing table in the mens? You'd rather the baby got changed on the mens floor, or all the going out and and about with baby be the mother's job?
Prioritising the rights of women and children my ass. You guys lost the plot.

Note: yes to gender neutral designated family facilities (a bit like the disabled loo cubicle). Would make everyone happy. But in absence of that, girls deserve to wee in the facility most suitable for their sex.

Deadringer · 22/01/2022 16:38

Presumably if he had small boys rather than girls he would have brought them into the mens whatever the state of them so that excuse doesn't really make sense, and i am not sure little girls would be any more traumatised by seeing men using a urinal than little boys would. Either way, men shouldn't be in the women's toilets.

twelly · 22/01/2022 16:40

I think he should use the disabled toilets, the children need to go to toilet and that is as far as I can see the only solution - given the what is available at the present time. Of course campaign for family toilets - but these don 't appear overnight

SpookyScarySkeletons · 22/01/2022 16:40

@PurplePeculiar

I don't think currently there's an acceptable solution until more businesses have family toilets. I don't think using the disabled loos or the women's loos is ok, no, for lots of reasons. But - would I personally be upset if he came into the ladies as you described, no probably not. Would I be upset if a male identifying as female came in - yes without a doubt.
As far as I can see nobody asked an opinion on a "man identifying as female" so please park that one as we all know things descend into nastiness on here.
Whatwouldscullydo · 22/01/2022 16:41

But in absence of that, girls deserve to wee in the facility most suitable for their sex

Most establishments have a cut off. It's usually about 8. So under 8 you go to whatever loo applicable to the sex of the parent. After that they go in their own.

Everyone who uses public toilets expects to see small children of either sex. It's not the drama it's it's made out to be by men who most likely are just trying to get out of parenting at all.

Lovelyricepudding · 22/01/2022 17:03

I also realise many women wouldn't be ok with it, despite the children, (which is fine), so wanted to get a general consensus.

No you shouldn't go with the 'consensus', if just one woman objected rhen that is enough to say 'I respect that woman's right to privacy, dignity and safety' which is what single sex toilets are provided for.

My DH absolutely used the men's when my daughters were small, it wouldn't have occurred to him to ignore the boundaries of women, ignore their feelings, ignore the fact that by entering this space many women would not be able to use them, and demand entry into women's toilets.

FairyLightQueen · 22/01/2022 17:14

Goodness I think I'm one of the only ones that would rather he went to the ladies. Men's toilets are rank and generally have men in various states of undress not in a cubicle. No way would I want a small child seeing that, tbh.

FairyLightQueen · 22/01/2022 17:15

I don't understand how people would rather have a small girl see a stranger's penis than let a small girl use the toilets of her own sex! How is that feminist?!

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