Why am I not surprised?

[FatFucker]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10382291/Did-Hertfordshire-Police-force-break-uniform-code-transgender-trailblazer.html

One rule for women and another for transgender women.

Having long green nails and heavy makeup, breaches Hertfordshire Police Forces uniform policy, unless of course you're trans! Then you can do what you like to "feel like a woman".

It's not really irrelevant, when I seems to come down to how you should or shouldn't dress.
To determine whether you're woman enough looking.
Fuck that

it

@NoNotMeNoSiree

It's not really irrelevant, when I seems to come down to how you should or shouldn't dress. To determine whether you're woman enough looking. Fuck that

Sounds like out dated gender stereotypes to me.

Dress however you like.

Police officers and other professions including court staff, and health care professionals are required to adhere to dress codes whilst at work though and that applies to all people in these roles, male or female. Just because you're transgender doesn't mean you get special dispensation.

Sorry? What is unclear?

The police dress code is clear. It should be applied consistently. There should be no special cases made because of someone’s trans status.

If the code of conduct is not followed, the consequences should be proportionate and again consistent. (such as being asked to remove and reapply the make up and nails etc. and if a regular issue, then to mark down on appraisal)

Even for a publicity shot.

A police force allowing double standards of dress code is allowing what other double standards? At a time when distrust of male officers to treat any female with respect.

'People should feel free to wear make up as and when they please if at all.'

What in any role? Have you thought that through?

What about actors esp women on screen?

Models on catwalk or on posters etc... ????

What if an actor playing king Arthur wants to have neon orange nails and makeup like toyah during filming?

What about acrylic nails (which eventually come off) for a surgeon, someone in computer research in dust free lab?

@NoNotMeNoSiree

fitting in what Thought that was clear from my posts? Assuming you're genuinely asking, and have read them, I was meaning if you're trans, whatever you do looks wise isn't '' right. '' There'll always be someone saying Erm, no.

That's because superficial adornment etc is irrelevant to what sex you are.

This story is a key point. As you indicate in your comment.

• There are stacks of differences between male and female. From all the physical ones, to socialised behaviour which is subtle and deep seated.

• I really don't give a toss about who wears makeup. Grew up in 80s, when teen went to clubs men makeup so what.

Wearing makeup has sod all to with being female. (Unless you're a sexist).

• What do women in police do? Well because you know differences, plus misogyny in society, I think it would be hard to find one out at the sharp end who didn't adopt the look least likely to mean sexual, sexist etc comments, and most likely to enforce her presence as someone not to be fucked with. I mean. Obviously?

-So why to fit in, the makeup?
Not to fit in with other female officers. Esp given not allowed the nails etc even on the outside chance any may want to.

-Why then?
To try to signal, I'm not a man. I'm a woman. The nails and makeup are intended to inform others of gender ID, make them think ah could be trans. And ask for pronouns. Or use she because well. Makeup nails.

This is something that has been expressed explicitly more than once.

It's important that men and women adhere to very different ways of dressing etc.

Because that means adopting those things is a clear hint.

That system only functions properly if the big difference in things 'for' men/women is maintained.

And only if the majority population adheres to the division.

(Anyone remember the goth piece??!!).

@NoNotMeNoSiree

It's not really irrelevant, when I seems to come down to how you should or shouldn't dress. To determine whether you're woman enough looking. Fuck that

'come down to how you should or shouldn't dress. To determine whether you're woman enough looking. Fuck that'

Women don't 'look like' women due to makeup and nails!

Come on...

Woman .. females... People with vaginas look like what we ARE.
Irrespective of makeup/nails.

When you watch the telly and see women around the world with a huge variety of different ways of dressing, with or without makeup, whether short or long hair, women with no hair due to chemo, women with burns due to warfare, women in rags and starving, I mean all of everything.

They ALL look like women. Sorry. These days. They all look like the sort of people with vaginas.

WHY not listen? Why not THINK?
Rather than saying. Effectively. You can tell whose a woman it's if makeup nail varnish.
Irrespective of the SEX of the person with them.

To disagree is to POLICE what women everywhere looks like. As need to JUDGE who is womanly enough.

Seriously.

Watching the news you see a dead woman being carried from a bombed area in Syria. For example.

Your point is that YOU can't tell she's a woman because no makeup?
That society can't tell because no makeup?

That saying makeup and nails are irrelevant means judging who is woman enough means that...??? Not sure.
Is it because she's obviously a woman, we're gatekeeping how women should look?

She's dead. She has no interest in anything any more.
I couldn't give one single fuck if knowing she's female upsets those who think all we are is a decorated skin

Cherry should not be allowed to flout the dress code.
If that means that some people don't recognise that Cherry is a TW, because no outward trappings, then that's just the way it is.

WHen Cherry is not at work, then makeup can be worn and Cherry can display whatever stereotypical traits of womanhood that Cherry wants to, in order to appear more feminine.

Work is a different story. Dress according to the code, regardless of how that affects one's feelings.

What is interesting is the essential difference in the underlying social stuff.

Female officers can't decorate like that.
Why? Need to give impression serious, means business, don't try any shit with me fellas. I'm a police officer who happens to be female. I have authority and if you forget that police officer first then you're screwed.

How many female officers who out sharp end, would choose to have fancy nails and strong makeup?

I met an ex SO19 woman once.
I'm not sure that painted nails and makeup would go without MASSIVE (more interesting than her skills etc) media and public commentary about the nails (negative).

She quit because of constant daily sexist vile bullying.

And trust me she was nails. Just who you want doing that sort of thing.

Ah. Just found so19 pic.

Don't think it would appeal to anyone who feels important in police to indicate woman through makeup nails.

The pics they're all wearing gloves and various types of face covering.

@NoNotMeNoSiree

fitting in what Thought that was clear from my posts? Assuming you're genuinely asking, and have read them, I was meaning if you're trans, whatever you do looks wise isn't '' right. '' There'll always be someone saying Erm, no.

This is because being a woman isn't about looks; it's about having XX chromosomes, and female primary and secondary reproductive characteristics. Since men cannot acquire these, being a transwoman involves stereotypically "female" clothing and makeup.

@NoNotMeNoSiree

I read all the posts. My comments said that I wasn't criticising for wearing make up. People should feel free to wear make up as and when they please if at all. If you re read my post maybe you might get why I'm saying I can wear make up or not wear makeup and not be judged (actually, that's a laugh, just typing that made me think how I'm sometimes referred to as tired looking ) If you're trans going by this posr you're going to get commented on your looks if you wear it or not.

Women are constantly commented upon and judged, not just for wearing or not wearing make up. Perhaps this particular transwoman will be commented upon whatever is worn or whatever make up is applied. However, the same is true of women as a whole. You are a woman judging other women for not believing in gender ideology and telling us to stay in our lane. So thank you for being a testament to the fact that women are constantly commented upon and judged.

So please, tell me what makes a transwoman being commented upon and judged any different from a natal woman? As far as I can tell, there is none. Transwomen have a big advantage having gone through male socialisation, have superior strength and are not oppressed as a sex class.

If a person identifies as the opposite sex and takes a role where specific clothing and presentation rules are in place based on sex, they should surely follow the rules for members of that sex.

If that means no heavy make up or bright nail varnish colours for women then that rule should apply to women and to men who identify as women in that role.

If that means no facial hair for the men, then that rule should apply to men and to women who identify as men in that role.

The make-up on its own could be understandable and forgivable (in my opinion) if O’Donnell had looked, in every other way, like a professional police officer in a natural or professional police officer stance.

But there’s a deliberate staginess. It looks like the hands are deliberately positioned to show them off, with their bright green varnish. It’s the performativenes that I find provocative. That, and all the boundaries that are constantly pushed.

It’s sad though. Doubtless Hertfordshire police were trying to do a good thing, but it ended up very negative. By allowing O’Donnell to break the rules, then using a photograph that actively highlights that rulebreak, they left themselves wide open to criticism. Someone in the chain of command should have told O’Donnell it was not appropriate.

There are few things that rile women more than seeing males (however they identify) being given preferential treatment.

@CheeseMmmm

Ah. Just found so19 pic.

Don't think it would appeal to anyone who feels important in police to indicate woman through makeup nails.

The pics they're all wearing gloves and various types of face covering.

Cherry would probably want to be wearing a pink balaclava and heels. That's what us girlz wear, to "feel like a woman".

As PPs have mentioned many times it's not because they are wearing makeup, they can wear what the Fuck they like when they are not in uniform but they are in uniform and are breaking the dress code!

I'd love to see the now deleted tweet with the red nail varnish, and the comments!

@NoNotMeNoSiree

It's not really irrelevant, when I seems to come down to how you should or shouldn't dress. To determine whether you're woman enough looking. Fuck that

No, the only prerequisite to being a woman is to be female, not male feelings or make up. That's sexist TRA stereotype bullshit.

Males who don't conform to conventional male appearance and behaviour are not still part of the female sex class.

@NoNotMeNoSiree

I thought most people knew that?

I do.
Correctly sex.
Refuse to see as trans. Stay in your lane.
Potato, potatah.

Let me get this right - you think correctly sexing someone is exactly the same as refusing to see them as trans?

It’s clear to me that Cherry is trans. It’s also clear to me that Cherry is male. The two aren’t mutually exclusive - are they to you?

@NoNotMeNoSiree

I honestly don't get this. As in, she's wearing make up and nail varnish. So bloody what?! It can't be put down to anything like '' valid concerns, taking over toilets!'' I sometimes think anyone who is trans can't win (that's a saying in the UK, it doesn't mean trying to win an end game or anything!) Don't wear make up. '' You look too much like a bloke!!'' '' At least makes an effort - Stop appropriating womanhood! Who says you can wear makeup or nail varnish?! At least make it consistent. Or should it be that people shouldn't be trans at all? Genuinely (honestly) curious

How do you know what pronouns cherry prefers?

What a bunch of transphobes that police for are then. Because they don't appear to believe that cherry is capable of following the same rules and regs as everyone else so cherry must be allowed to flout the rules in order to be able to do the job.

This kind of low bar behaviour standard is transphobic surely?

Know a female police officer. Having heard the stories, a woman police officer would be targeted for wearing excess make up or nails.
Even without the signals make up sends, she's endured sexually explicit remarks, been called fat, ugly, women's body part etc.

Must be nice to have the luxury of being able to present how you want due to a male body. Safe in the knowledge that if such a comment did occur the police would take the verbal abuse seriously and not tell you that that is part of being a police officer, if women want equality this I the reality etc.
Trans women can never be women because they can't she'd their male privilege, and as in this case, often use it to get their own way.

Oh and dyke, but no one takes homophobia of females seriously these days.

Ive not read the article yet but from what others have said its ‘excessive’ makeup and nails which is the issue

Police are really strict about nail varnish in our district. Friend doesn't wear any because only clear allowed, short so what is the point?