If born male you biologically stay male until you die? Yes?

[daisiesonmydress]

Just that really. That's my understanding. No matter how you dress or what surgery you have?

And you can legally say this too?

But its ok to be offensive in the same way to someone who's had gender re-assignment, yes?

Do trans women routinely have their wombs etc. removed as part of their transition? You should notify Guineas world records because I don't think that's happened before

I know, @RufustheFloralmissingreindeer! Great phrasing in that post. I scrolled past it because I thought it not worth replying to.

Might have been a smidge better alfonso had I not said ‘calked’ when i meant ‘called’ 🤔 still, you get the gist

Someone choosing to have plastic surgery is not the same as someone having life-saving surgery. HTH.

I don't find it offensive not to buy into someone's ideology.
In the same way that if an anorexic person said they were fat, I would not agree with them that they needed to lose another 10 pounds.
In the same way that someone hearing voices telling them to kill people might find it offensive if I disagreed that those voices were real.
In the same way that In the same way that someone might tell me they were Queen Victoria in a past life and be offended if I did not refer to them as Your Majesty.
In the same way that a man might tell me he is really a woman.

I don't buy into the gender religion and what it stands for, and as a biological realist, I'm not changing my language to pander to a biology denying fallacy.

It should be "sex equality awareness". How can there be "gender" equality when there are an unknown quantity of ever-shifting genders? By contrast, there are only ever two sexes.

But its ok to be offensive in the same way to someone who's had gender re-assignment, yes?

I don't actually believe in the magical act of "gender reassignment". Stating facts about male and female biology cannot reasonably be described as "offensive"

you do no get to use those views to create a hostile work environment

You do realise that this applies to all the protected characteristics in the Equality Act, including sex, sexual orientation and pregnancy/maternity?

@HoardingSamphireSaurus while having those views is a protected belief, you do no get to use those views to create a hostile work environment.

Funny how that only ever works one way!

Nobody ever gets sacked for making people feel uncomfortable for just being male or female, saying things that are just male or female, do they? No.

Add your pronouns to your email. Refuse and we will make your work environment so uncomfortable you wil do it, just to feel your job is safe!

Come to diversity trainng. What, you trhought we'd be talking about galss ceilings, equality, accessibility? Don't be silly. We are here to make sure you know how hard it is for a transwoman, sorry any transperson, to come to work, How very fearful they are at all times and how it is ALL YOUR FAULT!

Make a specific threat of violence to a specific woman on Twitter? yah, mate, sorry fae/ze/They . You must have been so frustrated.

Retweet a picture of a suffragette ribbon - Fuck you bitch, that's a noose and the police will have your cunt in the hot seat for months and months!

Be a black, lesbian barrister and have the temerity to say sex exists? Hey bitch. That's you in hot water. We'll bring in the big guns.

So don't tell me, or any gender critical woman, that we mustn't "create a hostile work environment" with our naughty views. We fucking live in one, created by men, TRAs and women who pander to them!

Well said @HoardingSamphireSaurus

@Ereshkigalangcleg

you do no get to use those views to create a hostile work environment

You do realise that this applies to all the protected characteristics in the Equality Act, including sex, sexual orientation and pregnancy/maternity?

And the protected 'belief' that sex is immutable.

And yet it can be heartbreaking

www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-04/nine-year-old-ellie-embracing-transgender-identity/100695208

I think refusing to display pronouns is the way to go. Otherwise you are getting sucked in.
"I don't feel I need to"

[quote TheSandgroper]And yet it can be heartbreaking

www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-04/nine-year-old-ellie-embracing-transgender-identity/100695208[/quote]
And yet it need not be.

We could just accept that kids will be kids, dress as they want to dress, etc etc etc.

No need to label the inquisitive nature of any kids, or their feelings of difference. Just accept them as they are, let them grow up without the gendered stereotyes we are obviously still mired in.

[quote TheSandgroper]And yet it can be heartbreaking

www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-04/nine-year-old-ellie-embracing-transgender-identity/100695208[/quote]
I read that early this morning when it was first published. Heartbreaking?

Yes. Heartbreaking that a child has been lead to believe that liking ‘girl things’ is any indication they are, in any way, a girl.

Coming from a place quite close to where this child lives, I find it is very sad to see this is pushed. It has not changed since I left that area many years ago.

That boys cannot be ballet dancers in any part they wish. They cannot wear the clothes they wish.

It is full of stereotypes. Strange that, isn’t it. That we keep being told it is not about stereotypes at all.

I am disappointed in the way the ABC is continuing to push this agenda. There is no balance to these articles at all.

[quote TheSandgroper]And yet it can be heartbreaking

www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-04/nine-year-old-ellie-embracing-transgender-identity/100695208[/quote]
I wonder if we are heartbroken for that child for the same reasons? It's not clear from your post. Poor kid

I do find this supposition that gender critical women are somehow uniquely likely to create a hostile work environment interesting.

It always comes out with a kind of side order of a barely suppressed rage filled cry of “I know what you’re thinking and it makes you A BAD PERSON!! I’ll be watching anyway, because with a terrible opinion like that, you simply must be a bully”.

The point is that the contents of work colleagues heads on matters political is a) irrelevant and b) none of your business. Deal with bullying- absolutely. But don’t imagine you can force everyone to think as you do (and why would you want to? ).

Good luck with the training, OP! Go in a spirit of genuine inquiry, but well prepared to challenge unsubstantiated claims, and Godspeed

But its ok to be offensive in the same way to someone who's had gender re-assignment, yes

"Having gender re-assignment" is a you thing. That is plastic surgery to give the person who has it a certain feeling about him or herself when he or she looks in the mirror. But it's plastic surgery on YOUR flesh. If you're a man, you stay a man. If you're a woman, you stay a woman. You don't cut a hole in a man and say, oh now I'm a lady.

It’s more accurate to say if born genetically male, you will most probably stay genetically male until you die.

This is because “biology” is too broad a term given today’s advances in medicine. Biologically, we can arrest puberty which is a biological process of maturing. Biologically we can make a genetically male person have the hormones of a female through hormone therapy. Biologically, we can give a male the biological secondary sex characteristics of a female.

The only think we cannot do (yet) is change the sex chromosomes in a person’s DNA. But DNA therapy is in its infancy and could change in our lifetimes.

@EmpressCixi

It’s more accurate to say if born genetically male, you will most probably stay genetically male until you die.

This is because “biology” is too broad a term given today’s advances in medicine. Biologically, we can arrest puberty which is a biological process of maturing. Biologically we can make a genetically male person have the hormones of a female through hormone therapy. Biologically, we can give a male the biological secondary sex characteristics of a female.

The only think we cannot do (yet) is change the sex chromosomes in a person’s DNA. But DNA therapy is in its infancy and could change in our lifetimes.

Bollocks.

'Most probably'? Fucks sake!

Biologically, we can give a male the biological secondary sex characteristics of a female.

No we cannot. Secondary sex characteristics of adult human females cannot be produced in male bodies. We can cosmetically alter the appearance of a male body to better approximate a female body, but we cannot replicate the functions and properties of a vagina.

@EmpressCixi

It’s more accurate to say if born genetically male, you will most probably stay genetically male until you die.

This is because “biology” is too broad a term given today’s advances in medicine. Biologically, we can arrest puberty which is a biological process of maturing. Biologically we can make a genetically male person have the hormones of a female through hormone therapy. Biologically, we can give a male the biological secondary sex characteristics of a female.

The only think we cannot do (yet) is change the sex chromosomes in a person’s DNA. But DNA therapy is in its infancy and could change in our lifetimes.

We can’t actually do any of those things, though.

We can halt a large chunk of the physical and mental changes of puberty (at an unknown cost to the child, but which seems to include loss of bone mass and IQ), but we don’t really understand how this is happening, as the full suite of effects caused by GnRH analogues is not as yet understood in anyone, let alone pubescent children.

We can suppress a large chunk of what are considered typically “male hormones” and introduce some exogenous “typically female” hormones. But women also produce testosterone, albeit at lower levels than men, so thinking of it as a male-only hormone is not correct. Women also produce other sex hormones such as FSH and LH, which are not, as I understand it, given to MTF trans people, so it is at best an approximation rather than a faithful reproduction.

True, males can have breast enhancement surgery. But In terms of genital surgery, a neo vagina is not at all the same as a vagina, as the vagina is a complete organ which cannot be synthesised.

I watch the development of DNA technology with interest, but I’m confused that in a world where there are countless millions of “missing girls” (girls who will never live because of abortion or infanticide due to male child preference), changing existing males into females would be any kind of priority.

So yes, it is correct now and probably always that if you are born male, ale is what you will remain for the rest of your life.

At what point has society agreed that a 'replica' becomes the real item?Why is that that a subset of society has been designated to be able to dictate that their cosmetic 'replica' equivalents are authentic to the real body parts?

Where else is this allowable? Why is this demanded and accepted as righteous?

Will a dna that is changed in this way, ever by ethical? And at what point is it ethical?

DNA changes cannot change things like developed skeleton in an adult male. If DNA is changed, does that mean a penis will drop off and a vagina will grow in its place? Does that mean that a complete reproductive system and every single connected system such as the hormone regulation centre will retrofit itself?

So that a once male can get pregnant in their new uterus and all the exact same systems that work to grow a foetus for 9 months will be in place and working to allow that?

Please explain why changing 'dna' will have any impact on this at a future date at all?

Or are we talking about a Star Trek transporter style system where an entire body can be vapourised into atomic particles and recreated how we wish? And I would like to know when that is possible so that I can make some modifications to my body?

It’s more accurate to say if born genetically male, you will most probably stay genetically male until you die.

Not really. While scientists quite rightly use 'probably' a lot, there are some things where the probability is so vanishingly low that it would be misleading rather than accurate to do so. This is such a case.