If born male you biologically stay male until you die? Yes?

[daisiesonmydress]

Just that really. That's my understanding. No matter how you dress or what surgery you have?

And you can legally say this too?

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

Empress, you knew quite well that RVN123 was trying to explain that medical ethics encompasses a lot more than "the patient said yes and offered me some money to do this".

The patient's assent is the first rung on a very long ladder!

No I did not. I still do not. Her exact words were: “Ethics has nothing to do with whether the person is willing..”

If she meant consent is only the first step...then why did she say it had nothing to do with ethics? Hmmm?

Sorry I have to go by what she actually said. Including the >snicker

You mean we can't trade body parts unless we are gender dysmorphic ? Shucks

Sorry.

Have I missed the explanation on the section chosen by empress that was not relevant to the point they made about ‘puberty blocked’ females having ‘robust’ male like bones.

Because the next section that explicitly referred to puberty blocked teenager was clear about those patience reaching adulthood not getting their bone density back up to where it should be.

Did I miss it? We are nearly finished this thread.

I would like to see a credible explanation as to this.

[quote EmpressCixi]@PurgatoryOfPotholes
So what about the donor in all this? You're going to tell women that they have to go through a riskier procedure and donate more of their bodies, in order to be fair to transwomen?

It’s not riskier. You’re making that up.[/quote]
It doesn’t exist so how do you know it’s not riskier?

Snicker
Probably suggesting chocolate?

Other brands available

@bordermidgebite

You mean we can't trade body parts unless we are gender dysmorphic ? Shucks

We can't? Bugger. I was hoping to swap 36ff boobs for longer legs.

Can I swap my Kitkat for the Snicker?

@bordermidgebite

Is it the first or last rung ?

From my point of view, surely first, because there is no point spending time on the paperwork, and calling a multi-disciplinary team together to discuss the ethics and all that, before asking the prospective patient whether they even want it! You could have been doing something useful instead.

Or just arguing on MN.

You’re making that up

IRONY KLAXON 🤣

Well, as this thread draws unsteadily to a merciful close, I’m sure we can all agree that it covered a lot of ground.

@foxgoosefinch

Can I swap my Kitkat for the Snicker?

Not sure thats very ethical

@Helleofabore

Sorry.

Have I missed the explanation on the section chosen by empress that was not relevant to the point they made about ‘puberty blocked’ females having ‘robust’ male like bones.

Because the next section that explicitly referred to puberty blocked teenager was clear about those patience reaching adulthood not getting their bone density back up to where it should be.

Did I miss it? We are nearly finished this thread.

I would like to see a credible explanation as to this.

It was a lie, you won't get an explanation

And no acknowledgement or awareness of the very fact that if scientists and medical researchers cannot even keep an embryo alive past 14 days at the moment, that there is NO way any clinic can be impregnating males ‘in a few years’.

This thread is bonkers!!!

@foxgoosefinch

Interesting topic, start a new thread.

It’s relevant to this one, so why don’t you answer? They used to be considered companion disorders. So if it’s not ethical to chop and swap bits of the body with other people’s in Body Integrity Disorder, how come it is in Gender Dysphoria…? Or do you think there’s no difference? You’re the one who began talking about transplants of body parts, so I’m interested to hear your answer.

Because I have made no comment on the ethics as to my own opinion. I have only posted the initial conclusions of bioethicists that I have read in regards to UTx for transwomen with nothing of my own opinion (as I stated when I posted it). I have read nothing about body part donation between people with BID and even if I had, I would only post bioethicist conclusions not my own opinion.

I'll give you a snicker for a packet of jelly tots. I don't like chocolate.

We've got no takers for all the boobs on offer ?

As for the idea that transmen would happily donate the uterus they no longer want to their trans siblings, well. As already pointed out, if a patient consents to an operation, the HCPs should be carrying that operation out as best they can for that patient's benefit, not for the benefit of another patient waiting for an organ removed from the first patient to be implanted into their body.

But over and above that, these transmen are often very young. Research has shown that a great many girls who transition have one or more of the following characteristics:

1. On the autistic spectrum or other neurodevelopmental disorder
2. Experienced abuse of some kind
3. Gone through a traumatic family experience, e.g. parents divorced and not amicably, or a major bereavement
4. Pre-existing mental health issues, e.g. depression, anxiety

None of that puts a young person in a good place to become a self-confident, assertive person well placed to resist strong social pressure from transwomen and allies using emotional manipulation to make the transmen believe it is their duty to donate their organs to their oppressed trans siblings. Female socialisation would play a big part here too.

It was a lie, you won't get an explanation

We all pointed out the discrepancy pages ago! And yet the lies continue.

If you are so interested in bioethics I’d expect a bit more than “it’s not unethical if the patient is paying”.

Stay strong women!!

@bordermidgebite

We've got no takers for all the boobs on offer ?

No mine are big enough already

No one can change sex.

@bordermidgebite

We've got no takers for all the boobs on offer ?

Not as a swap no. But if they're on offer in any other way I might try and seduce the owner with my new green eyes. I hope they put them in the right way!

Once a male always a male.

The end