If born male you biologically stay male until you die? Yes?

[daisiesonmydress]

Just that really. That's my understanding. No matter how you dress or what surgery you have?

And you can legally say this too?

@foxgoosefinch

We are only a few years from transwomen being able to get pregnant

Where are the uteruses going to come from? Will they be grown in jars, or is the plan to harvest them from terfs on the black market?

If you’d read any of the medical discussions and debates there are two potential donor pools identified:

1. transmen having full hysterectomies donating their uterus/cervix/vagina cuffs to transwomen, and
2. cadavers who were consenting organ donors.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-9908667/amp/Jessica-Alves-travels-Brazil-transgender-woman-womb-transplant.html

Is this your source, Empress?

No, A transwoman getting pregnant is what I said is a few years away. That’s the next step after being able to do a UTx. To date, no transwoman has gotten pregnant.

So…. You are counting on a rogue clinic doing unethical experiments then?

Or maybe the pregnancy will last 14 days before it needs to be terminated.

Is that it? The sleight of hand again.

Really Empress? Quick look at first website I found:

The internal pudendal artery is the main vessel that supplies oxygenated blood to the penis. Without it, a man could not achieve an erection. Problems with blood flow to the penis can result in erectile dysfunction and other related conditions.

Other arteries of the male pelvis include:

Testicular arteries: Also known as the internal spermatic arteries, these branch from the abdominal artery and supply blood to the testes, which is where sperm production and development occurs.
Internal iliac artery: A main artery in the pelvis despite being only about four centimeters long, it helps supply blood to the reproductive organs, buttock muscles, and other areas in the pelvis.
Inferior vesical: This artery supplies oxygenated blood to the bladder.

Other important nerves in the region include:

Peroneal nerve: This nerve branches off from the pudendal nerve from the sciatic nerve and serves the lower leg, foot, and toes. It branches off to the dorsal nerve of the penis.
Dorsal nerve of the penis: This is the major nerve of the penis and is the deepest branch of the pudendal nerve. It is responsible for motor functions and sensation in the penis’s skin.
The dorsal nerve of the penis is critical to erection. Although the signal for erection originates in the brain, the dorsal nerve sends and receives signals to increase blood flow.

A few differences?

@FlyingOink
But it's not true.

I posted six studies and one meta-analysis of multiple other studies showing it most definitely is true. Saying “but it’s not true...” is denying science.

Getting back to the original post, even if a man has a womb transplant , he still doesn't change sex, he will still be a man.Moreover, after death , the archeologists will still correctly identify him as a man.

@HaroldMeeker

Is this your source, Empress?

No, it’s not. But obviously if you can find news reports of transwomen going to Brazil to get this surgery, then obviously Im not lying am I?

@334bu

Getting back to the original post, even if a man has a womb transplant , he still doesn't change sex, he will still be a man.Moreover, after death , the archeologists will still correctly identify him as a man.

Only if they do a DNA analysis, otherwise there is a 5-20% chance they’ll say he’s a woman.

Wow, I looked at this thread at the beginning, OP, and now I've come back to comment and see it's been quite a wild ride! Anyway, I just wanted to answer your original question. Yes!

Best of luck with the "training" - I hope you peak a few colleagues.

No, it’s not. But obviously if you can find news reports of transwomen going to Brazil to get this surgery, then obviously Im not lying am I?

Hahaha hahaha! You think that proves your point???????? Good lordy lord. Houston, we have a problem.

@RVN123
The internal pudendal artery is the main vessel that supplies oxygenated blood to the penis.

Women have an internal pudendal artery too...in the same place. It supplies the bulb of vestibule and greater vestibular gland.

Testicular arteries: Also known as the internal spermatic arteries,

The usual term for these are actually the gonadal arteries...supply the testes in males and ovaries in females. You’d say “testicular arteries” if you knew the patient was male but if you don’t know sex, it’s gonadal arteries...also in same place.

Internal iliac artery:

Same in men and women.

You know even if people get the sex wrong they can only do that if there is a sex that is fixed ( static) that could be mistaken

So no matter what, the sex stays the same post all and any imaginable modifications

Well there we are

There is no sex change , so no reason to have any rights to anything not belonging to your sex

Two things. I note Empress says the studies show no bone density loss. This is disingenuous. During puberty you would expect a large increase in bone density not just remaining stable.

Secondly, whilst you may take tissue from donor cadavers, you don't take organs.

The idea of womb transplants into trans women would be exceptionally unethical - just gruesome stuff. Anyone who would welcome it is seriously deluded about the medical and ethical complexities, and has extremely poor judgment. But I suspect that goading feminists on this is the whole point.

In terms of getting pregnant, it is all about the men isn't it? Never any consideration for the baby?

@Helleofabore

No, A transwoman getting pregnant is what I said is a few years away. That’s the next step after being able to do a UTx. To date, no transwoman has gotten pregnant.

So…. You are counting on a rogue clinic doing unethical experiments then?

Or maybe the pregnancy will last 14 days before it needs to be terminated.

Is that it? The sleight of hand again.

How are they “rogue” if they’re doing a perfectly legal surgery? And how can it be “unethical” if the person being operated on is not only consenting but paying for the surgery?

The only unethical thing here is the banning of transwomen from applying as volunteer patients in government funded clinical trials for uterine transplants.

More.

".....And in biologically female individuals, there are also vaginal arteries.

Remember that these branches also supply structures of the genitourinary tracts, so they’ll have variations depending on whether you are born biologically male or female.
In males, the superior vesical arteries may also give a branch to the ductus deferens, or vas deferens, which facilitates the transport of sperm from the scrotum.

There’s also an inferior vesical artery that is only found in males, whereas in females, it’s replaced by the vaginal artery which has inferior vesical branches. In males, the inferior vesical arteries supply the inferior aspect of the urinary bladder, the prostate gland, seminal glands, and pelvic parts of the ureters. Finally, the branch to the ductus deferens may arise from the inferior vesical arteries, instead of arising from the superior vesical arteries.

Next are the uterine arteries, which are the female counterpart to the artery of ductus deferens in males. These arteries most often arise from the anterior division of the internal iliac artery, but may arise from the umbilical artery.

At the junction of the cervix and the vagina, each uterine artery divides into two branches: a small descending branch called the vaginal branch -which supplies parts of the vagina and the cervix - and a larger ascending branch, which runs superiorly along the lateral margins of the uterus supplying it.

Each ascending branch gives two branches: the ovarian branch -which supplies the medial aspect of the ovaries- and the tubal branch, which supplies the medial end of the uterine or fallopian tube.

And now, an important point. Besides the vaginal branch of the uterine artery, in females, there’s also a vaginal artery per se. The vaginal artery gives two branches: the vaginal branch, which gives multiple branches for the anterior and posterior aspects of the vagina, and the inferior vesical branch, which nourishes the inferior aspect and the fundus of the urinary bladder.

The vaginal artery anastomoses with the vaginal branch of the uterine artery, and the inferior vesical branches anastomose with the superior vesical branches of the umbilical artery.

Next is the middle rectal artery, which can have a variable origin from the anterior division of the internal iliac artery, and descends into the pelvis to supply the inferior parts of the rectum, the prostate, and seminal gland in males, as well as parts of the vagina in females. "

Seems we are not quite the same after all! Oh dear.

No, it’s not. But obviously if you can find news reports of transwomen going to Brazil to get this surgery, then obviously Im not lying am I?

Ha did you read it? It’s an article about a clearly very disturbed person who thinks they are going to Brazil to be the first transwoman to be pregnant.

@Lovelyricepudding

Two things. I note Empress says the studies show no bone density loss. This is disingenuous. During puberty you would expect a large increase in bone density not just remaining stable.

Secondly, whilst you may take tissue from donor cadavers, you don't take organs.

Its no bone density loss compared to controls The controls are girls who have not gone on puberty blockers but are in puberty and becoming adult women.

Secondly, don’t know what planet you are on but organs are indeed taken from cadavers (recently deceased) not merely “tissue”.

You also don’t take vaginal cuffs from women who are donating their reproductive anatomy, as a vaginal cuff only exists after you have a hysterectomy. It’s the new end of a vaginal canal, formed by sewing the sides of the upper vagina together to stop your other organs prolapsing. You couldn’t “donate” it.

Just a demonstrative little nugget of nonsense from the smorgasbord on offer.

The only unethical thing here is the banning of transwomen from applying as volunteer patients in government funded clinical trials for uterine transplants.

You clearly have zero knowledge about how clinical trials work, in just about every respect!

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

I would like to see an out and out ban on children taking puberty blockers for gender issues as the risks to their physical and mental heatlh are so considerable.

However, given that some unfortunate kids are being put on these nasty drugs, it's not going to help young females pass as male, is it? They don't go through their growth spurt when they should and from my limited understanding that means they don't have much chance of reaching average male height.

Is this a case of doctors not sufficiently differentiating between how male and female puberty works? I can see how it would be considered helpful for males not to have their growth spurt at the right time, as they will end up more like average female height.

My personal opinion is it's just old fashioned sexism in medicine. The same treatment for women as for Default Humans regardless of efficacy.

Males on blockers have no penis tissue to fashion into a neovagina, because it is stunted and remains child size. But they "pass" better so there is some (tiny) point to the harmful drugs.

Females on blockers? Apparently just to stop periods and breast growth, but the side effects are being physically tiny and having crumbling bones. The side effects are worse, and the benefits are fewer.

If you take FtM transition to it's nth degree, as in a full surgical transition begun in childhood, you've got a tiny person with weak bones, with post surgical chest damage, nerve damage, possibly unable to raise arms and with at least one forearm and therefore one hand permanently weakened through harvesting flesh for a phalloplasty.

Probably has difficulty urinating, likely to have UTIs regularly, likely to find orgasm painful unless a hysterectomy is also performed, sending them into menopause.

That sounds like the opposite of manly to me. Call me old fashioned, but none of that screams "masculine" to me.

Compare this person, posting a tiktok from their hospital bed, to the stereotypical farmer's wife - I'm painting an exaggerated picture - and which one is healthy, robust, strong and physical? All those "masculine" stereotypes? Who is taller, broader, faster and more powerful? Who is happy and healthy and most likely able to have children?

(I'm not even using butch lesbians as a comparator, because of course there have always been powerfully built women who do physical work, in all countries and across the ages.)

It is terrible the way in which they lie to children and sell them a dream that won't come true. It's just immoral. And to make those children unwell, with life changing medical problems, in pursuit of a lie - it's just horrific. But the point has to be made that blockers in a girl will make her less naturally "masculine"than she might have grown up to be without medical intervention. It will certainly make her more unwell and physically smaller.

And how can it be “unethical” if the person being operated on is not only consenting but paying for the surgery?

GOOD GOD.
HOW did you just say this? My DH is a director of a pharmaceutical company and he would die laughing if I showed him this, do you have ANY IDEA how clinical trials work and how ethics committees are run?
Ethics has NOTHING to do with if the patient is willing or paying for a procedure. Are you serious?

[quote EmpressCixi]@FlyingOink
But it's not true.

I posted six studies and one meta-analysis of multiple other studies showing it most definitely is true. Saying “but it’s not true...” is denying science.[/quote]
You posted a load of stuff you didn't understand and you lied about what it said.